What would you do?

[j9899]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I can't make a thread until I get 3 posts in. Right now I'm 23 years old 5'10", 173 lbs at 10-12% bf. I've been training hard for about 3 years now. I started off obese at 5'8" and 245 lbs and managed to get where I am now, although I have been down to 7% bf before. I have read most of the stickies and understand the diet and program. My main question is: if you were in my position and looking to get as big as possible naturally for now, would you start bulking or get to a lower bf % first before you start. Most of my bulks have been unsuccessful in the past and believe to have accumulated more fat/water than muscle. A lot of my lifts are strong for my size: 285 lb bench, 400 lb squat, and 455 lb DL and I lift a lot more weight in the gym than a lot of the guys that have more muscle mass on them. It seems most of my 3 years, other than a few short bulks, have been focused on losing fat and dieting. I'm getting rather tired of being small and dieting and would like to bulk up DC style, but just don't know if I'm at an ideal bf to start( better nutrient partitioning, insulin sensitivity starting leaner) . My thought was to bulk for a long while DC style(6+ months), with cardio on rest days, carb cutoffs,lower carbs on rest days, and lots of green tea ALC and ALA starting now. Any advice on what I should do?
Thanks

[Ajweins]

If you are seriously trying to get as big as possible naturally, you would bulk.

[Doberman]

First, I would see what your body fat really is. A lot of people say they are 10-12, but in reality they are 15-16%. If that is the case I would try to get to 10% and go from their. You don't have to feel weak or kill yourself to reach that, just smart choices and monitoring your intake. My last bulk got me up to 12%, but then I dieted down to 8% without a lot of pain and I actually got stronger. I was meticulous when I did this, but I didn't have to starve myself.

Ok, with that said, if you are a true 10% I say go for it. If you are 12% maybe take a month and diet a little to get to a true 10%, but even at 12% that is up to you. If you want to get as big as possible then bite the bullet and just keep track of your body fat. If you do decided to cut train like you are "bulking" though, let your diet get you there, and don't go overboard on cardio. I actually did no traditional cardio. Instead I wore a pedometer and made sure I got 10,000 steps a day. When fat loss slowed, I added steps and cut calories a little. Everyone is different, but for my off season, I try to never go over 12%. *Also, when I'm giving these numbers I'm talking about number that I get from the 9 site caliper test. The BOD POD or other tests will not equate to this.

Now with what program you do that is up to you. If you feel you are advanced enough then do DC. You said you read the stickies so you should know what level experience is necessary. If you want to do DC, do it the way Dante lays it out. If you think you need to cut and haven't been doing DC then I would start with a higher volume program, but try to get stronger during the program. My most effective fat loss programs, I have always had the mind set of getting stronger. If getting to 10% leaves you feeling weak and drained you are doing something wrong (too much cardio, or too much restriction in calories). I'm guessing it might be combination of both. As far as diet look into some of the threads on Intermittent Fasting (IF), Alternate Day Dieting, or Carb Cycling. These tend keep people happier during dieting. After you reach your goal bf then maybe go to DC training and do his program as it's laid out in the stickies. If you mind his diet and cardio protocol you shouldn't have to keep up with this yo-yo dieting.

[j9899]

Thanks that helped me out a lot. I've actually been following a 20 hr fast/ 4 hour eating window for the cut I've been on. I also go for 6 days with only 25 carbs or less and then I do a carb up. Lifting days I eat at +10% and -40% on off days, but don't eat carbs until that one day of each week. The lifting I have been doing is leangains style. Heavy chins, deads, squats, benchpress 3 days a week with cardio on off days(reverse pyramid). It's been working, but I looked at my self one day in the mirror and thought I was looking pretty small and didn't see much muscle mass. I did DC last week while in a surplus and liked it. It was very intense, but I like it that way. Based on a response I was going to continue bulking or go back to my cut. My bf was measured at 10.2% a couple weeks ago, but I don't look as lean right, so i guessed around 10-12% somewhere. My goal was to get down to 5 % bf and I started thinking about small I'd look then, but then again I guess a bulk would be better starting form 5% anyway. I think I'll continue with my cut with either reverse pyramid or switch to DC because I really like it and then go on a long bulk with DC afterwards. Today is one of my scheduled rest days from DC. I'm supposed to do biceps, forearms, calves, hams and quads tomorrow. Thanks for the response doberman.

[Doberman]

No problem, but I definitely wouldn't shoot for 5% before you try to gain again (I hate the term "bulking"). Getting down to 5% is fine if you are getting ready for a show, but for most people when you get to 6-8% body fat it becomes very difficult to lose. The lowest I'd go unless you are doing a show is 6-8% depending on your natural metabolism. If you want to a short cut do a short one. At 10.2% your lean enough to try to gain. Just stop looking at gaining as bulking. You don't need to get fat. So like I said if you really think you want to get below 10.2 then hit it for a short period, but then start trying to gain. You don't need to get contest lean before you try to gain. Leave the hard dieting if you want to do a contest. Once you are gaining again monitor you bf. If it gets too high you can do short periods of cutting (1-2 weeks), and then go back to trying to gain.

If you do DC the way it is laid out can work that way naturally if you think about it. 6 weeks of blasting (just throwing out a time period as this can change for everyone) then 7-10 or even a 2 weeks of cruising and at lower calories, then back to blasting. Dante recommends cardio and carb cutoffs. Doing this, cutting calories during a cruise, and maybe doing some volume light training during the cruise will help with getting too fat while gaining.

[Doberman]

I also want to point out that I'm not directly instructing you on DC training as that is not my expertise. We have people on the board that specialize in DC. I am mainly trying to comment on when to cut and when to try to gain. All my comments on DC are mainly from what the stickies say. So someone with more DC experience may be able to give you better advice in that regard.