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  • Carb backloading

    Bought the book this week and have read through it twice. What I'm taking away from it isn't that extraordinary or revolutionary. A 3-4 hour fast upon waking followed by a meal of meats and veggies. 45-90 minutes PWO get in your carbs for the day through high gi sources. The book nails how important that window of time is post-exercise for muscle. So in conclusion it's preaching the importance of post-workout nutrition with high carbs. Interested to see if anybody else has something to say
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  • #2
    I dont think it will cause anything magical as opposed to focusing food, mainly protein and carbs, around workouts. I believe he also advocates training around 4 and eating carbs starting after training. His reasoning is that we ar insulin sensitive in both muscle AND fat cells in the morning, and insulin insensitive in both at night. Training at night re sensitizes the muscle cells and allows you to store more carbs in muscle since later in the day the fat cells will be less receptive or affected by insulin. He also mentions something about using caffeine to make fat cells less insulin receptive (explains why but I forget lol).

    Sounds overcomplicated to me. KISS.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Claybear View Post
      Bought the book this week and have read through it twice. What I'm taking away from it isn't that extraordinary or revolutionary. A 3-4 hour fast upon waking followed by a meal of meats and veggies. 45-90 minutes PWO get in your carbs for the day through high gi sources. The book nails how important that window of time is post-exercise for muscle. So in conclusion it's preaching the importance of post-workout nutrition with high carbs. Interested to see if anybody else has something to say
      Pre-workout you need to make sure your fat matches your protein. The template is easy, the trick is how to tweak it. I have done timed-carb diets before, I have never kept losing fat on 350g of carbs 3x per week plus an 8 hour carb load one day per week like I am on this diet.:plane:

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      • #4
        Skip had me doing this at one point when i was working with him...
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        • #5
          Originally posted by CJ Hartley View Post
          Skip had me doing this at one point when i was working with him...
          What did you think of it?
          PM me to discuss website/video/dvd etc. related work.

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          • #6
            I did not like not eating for that long after waking up and doing cardio. I am starving when i get up, unless its the day after a skipload.
            2014 NPC Mr MN State TBD
            2012 NPC MN state 40+ 1st and 3rd Hvy *Injury :frusty:
            2012 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 1st SuperHvy
            2011 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 2nd Open Hvy.
            2011 NPC Upper Midwest 40+ 1st and Super Hvy 1st
            2009 Gopher State 4th Hvy and 4th Masters 40+
            *11 Natural contest 1992-2000 placed top 4 of all
            88 Natural Mr MN 2nd Teen
            88 Gopher State 4th Teen Hvy Div 176lbs

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            • #7
              I have not bought the book yet, but based on Keifers articles I have started carb backloading and am extremely happy and shocked at the results thus far.

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              • #8
                It appears to be a great method in addition to being a way to get people over their irrational fear of carbohydrate.

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                • #9
                  The approach may be similar that I used with CJ but I don't have any idea what "carb backloading" is or means. Just sayin'.

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                  • #10
                    http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=44068

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                    • #11
                      Thanks to Homon for the links. If this is similar to "IF" I think this might be a great way to eat for the bodybuilder that wants to maintain a more "normal" lifestyle outside the gym. Side note: I really need to stop with all the quotes.
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                      • #12
                        To anyone who's read/done CBL:

                        Is it essentially like this:

                        Training Day: Wake up, knock down some coffee with or without some MCT's, hold off on breakfast for a few hours. Up until training (around 6PM), have just protein/fat meals and then have carbs/protein post-workout? Now....is the post-workout window an anything-goes type of thing, like a Skipload? Obviously, each person is different and will be able to tolerate a different amount of carbs while maintaining leanness or getting leaner, but is it like a shorter, night-time skipload?

                        Off Days: Start the day the same way, coffee/MCT's....and then pretty much protein/fat the rest of the day, though some clean, low GI carbs can be eaten at night.

                        Is that pretty much Kiefer's approach, in a nutshell? I'm particularly interested about post-workout carbs and whether or not it's like a mini Skipload.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dakoose View Post
                          To anyone who's read/done CBL:

                          Is it essentially like this:

                          Training Day: Wake up, knock down some coffee with or without some MCT's, hold off on breakfast for a few hours. Up until training (around 6PM), have just protein/fat meals and then have carbs/protein post-workout? Now....is the post-workout window an anything-goes type of thing, like a Skipload? Obviously, each person is different and will be able to tolerate a different amount of carbs while maintaining leanness or getting leaner, but is it like a shorter, night-time skipload?

                          Off Days: Start the day the same way, coffee/MCT's....and then pretty much protein/fat the rest of the day, though some clean, low GI carbs can be eaten at night.

                          Is that pretty much Kiefer's approach, in a nutshell? I'm particularly interested about post-workout carbs and whether or not it's like a mini Skipload.
                          To start off, i have been on CBL for a little over half a year and have so far lost 20lbs, though i feel the changes in the mirror have been more drastic. Im still far from bodybuilding lean though.

                          You pretty much nailed what the approach is:

                          You are supposed to fast for a maximum of 12 hours, so depending on when you had your last meal, you either skip breakfast or not. I sometimes have my last meal at 7 and then have a protein/fat meal in the morning at 7.

                          The pre-workout part of the day you stick to less than 30 grams of carbs and you aim to match fat to protein (as described above in this thread) in grams. Animal fat is recommended, so fatty meat is the cornerstone of my diet.

                          After training, Kiefer has recommended going with less processed food. So instead of going with McDonalds, you could make your own burger. Or getting a fresh handtossed pizza, instead of frozen. You dont have to minimize fat per se in the backload.

                          What is most important though is that you base the size of your backload (number of carbs) on how you look the next morning. It is recommended that you first go all out and then scale it back a bit through trial and error. In the beginning, when i had more fat i felt that cleaner backloads (more Skiploading type foods) gave better results. As i have gotten leaner and further into the diet, i can get away i feel with a little dirtier food.

                          On off days, you once again stick to less than 30 grams and depending on your goals you can have carbs at night. The so called Strength Accumulation template is to maximize fat loss whilst preventing muscle loss and in many cases even gaining muscle. In this template you do not backload on off days. The Density Bulking template however is to gain the most mass possible, and backloading on off days is allowed. With this template, its also less important to match fat and protein in grams.

                          To conclude (sorry for the long post), the backloads can be seen as small Skiploads, because you are loading carbs and you could use the same type of foods. I would however not use this terminology as i think Skiploads are normally done on days where one does not work out. With CBL, you load post workout.
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                          • #14
                            Great info....for the record I didn't read the book, I just read whatever info I could find on the diet from around the web.

                            Originally posted by LuNa23 View Post
                            To start off, i have been on CBL for a little over half a year and have so far lost 20lbs, though i feel the changes in the mirror have been more drastic. Im still far from bodybuilding lean though.

                            Amazing progress......sounds like a great recomp!

                            You pretty much nailed what the approach is:

                            You are supposed to fast for a maximum of 12 hours, so depending on when you had your last meal, you either skip breakfast or not. I sometimes have my last meal at 7 and then have a protein/fat meal in the morning at 7.

                            The pre-workout part of the day you stick to less than 30 grams of carbs and you aim to match fat to protein (as described above in this thread) in grams. Animal fat is recommended, so fatty meat is the cornerstone of my diet.

                            Do ancillary carbs from things like nuts, nut butters and green vegetables count towards that count or is the gist of it to not have any direct carb sources?

                            After training, Kiefer has recommended going with less processed food. So instead of going with McDonalds, you could make your own burger. Or getting a fresh handtossed pizza, instead of frozen. You dont have to minimize fat per se in the backload.

                            What is most important though is that you base the size of your backload (number of carbs) on how you look the next morning. It is recommended that you first go all out and then scale it back a bit through trial and error. In the beginning, when i had more fat i felt that cleaner backloads (more Skiploading type foods) gave better results. As i have gotten leaner and further into the diet, i can get away i feel with a little dirtier food.

                            When you say "cleaner," are you saying clean as in the carb sources you eat are clean, like sweet potatoes, rice cakes, brown rice, or that the sources of carbs are clean in the sense that they contain very little or no ancillary fats?

                            On off days, you once again stick to less than 30 grams and depending on your goals you can have carbs at night. The so called Strength Accumulation template is to maximize fat loss whilst preventing muscle loss and in many cases even gaining muscle. In this template you do not backload on off days. The Density Bulking template however is to gain the most mass possible, and backloading on off days is allowed. With this template, its also less important to match fat and protein in grams.

                            Yeah, I figured that, depending on goals, both the size and frequency of backloads will differ. That's carb-cycling 101.

                            To conclude (sorry for the long post), the backloads can be seen as small Skiploads, because you are loading carbs and you could use the same type of foods. I would however not use this terminology as i think Skiploads are normally done on days where one does not work out. With CBL, you load post workout.
                            Yeah, you're right about skiploads being on non-workout days.....at least that's what SKIP had me do when I was with him during one of his experiments

                            Again, thank's for the awesome info.....this stuff isn't revolutionary but I wanted to see if I pretty much had the gist of his idea.
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                            • #15
                              I think DCBeliever is using a back loading approach now....is be interested in him chiming in here.....I talked to him a little bit on FB about it but I'd rather have him lay out what he's doing.....
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