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  • NO powo for better recovery?

    Has anyone tried supplementing a vasodilator, particularly NO, post workout in order to get better recovery? I've noticed that sitting in a hot tub after a workout helps with DOMS. there were also occasions when after a legs day, I would go to some clubs with friends. It sounds like the opposite of what you would want, but for some reason the DOMS was always less intense and sometimes nonexistent after nights like this. Of course there was alcohol involved too which is a vasodilator.

    I'm wondering if the hot tub and dancing around both brought more blood to my exercised muscles and helped speed up their recovery.

    So do you guys think it would be beneficial to supp NO post workout so you could increase blood flow to your muscles? I think this would work to aid recovery just like foam rolling does, only this is done chemically as opposed to physically. I think extreme stretching also has a similar effect in that it always gives a huge pump to my muscles in response to the stretch.
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  • #2
    I don't know if they would help or not. I don't think they've ever really been touted as a recovery agent, moreso just a pump inducing supp....I'd like to see what Homon would say to this question. I tend to think if they helped aid in recovery that they would be advertised as such, as it would give another boost to sales of these particular products.....
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    • #3
      I bet Homonunculus would reference a certain study that showed less blood flow= better gains.
      Lee Salado, E.P.A.S.

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      • #4
        Increased blood flow would aid in recovery (actually that is what happened when you went dancing... You got a minor "pump" in your legs) but does that mean increasing the rate of recovery leads to more GROWTH?? From personal experience, observation and how I have read different studies (no, I can't site them... I am talking about reading stuff over time) I don't think it really does. I believe when you cause a trama to the muscle and bring it back to normal to quickly....your body doesn't really have the same need to adapt....it doesn't have to go to the same extremely (in this case that means growth of an expensive tissue-muscle) to protect itself in the future. When the trama lasts a while...when the body feels it must try and prevent this from happening again....is one of the ways you get new growth. As I said, this is what seems logical to me, what I have experienced and observed and what I have taken from various studies.

        Just my view.
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        • #5
          Perhaps NO isn't advertised as such because it hasn't been looked at in this way.

          I didn't check the literature, but yeah I wonder if anyone has seen studies that support or refute this idea.

          Dunhill, I'm not sure that really makes sense. in particular with DC training when you want to hit a muscle group every ~4 days, I think quick recovery becomes crucial. This idea came to me because I stepped away from DC training last fall. My sleep was terrible and I just couldn't recover from the blasts. My sleep is better now and I'd like to get back to DC, but some recovery help would be great.
          Last edited by chris.tan; 02-20-2012, 06:36 PM. Reason: damn auto correct
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          • #6
            I found a few abstracts that might add to the discussion:

            L-Arginine Ingestion after Rest and Exercise: Effects on Glucose Disposal

            ROBINSON, T. M., D. A. SEWELL, and P. L. GREENHAFF. L-Arginine Ingestion after Rest and Exercise: Effects on Glucose Disposal. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 35, No. 8, pp. 1309-1315, 2003.
            Purpose: There is considerable interest, both in health and disease, in enhancing postexercise glucose uptake and glycogen resynthesis in skeletal muscle. The amino acid, arginine, is known to stimulate insulin release and enhance glucose-stimulated insulin release.

            Methods: The present investigation examined whether an oral dose of L-arginine (10 g), when given with 70 g carbohydrate (CHO, in the form of simple sugars) improved factors associated with glucose disposal in previously exercised and nonexercised healthy males. The effects of different modes of activity (resistance or cycling exercise) upon these factors were also examined.

            Results: Whole-blood glucose and serum insulin concentrations after L-arginine + CHO ingestion were not significantly different from the placebo condition (glycine + CHO ingestion) in all experimental treatments (nonexercised, resistance exercise, and cycling exercise). Similarly, CHO oxidation, forearm blood flow, blood pressure, and heart rate during the postingestion period were unaffected by L-arginine + CHO consumption in all three experimental treatments.

            Conclusion: A 10-g oral dose of L-arginine was found to have no effect on blood glucose disposal in human subjects after oral CHO ingestion, either when rested or after different modes of exercise known to differentially affect glucose disposal. These results suggest that the addition of L-arginine to a CHO beverage would not augment postexercise CHO replenishment in healthy human subjects.

            When carbohydrate (CHO) is consumed after exercise, the rate of glycogen resynthesis is directly related to the magnitude of the CHO-mediated insulin response (28). Insulin promotes muscle glucose transport (18,24) and increases glycogen synthase activity (17). Therefore, any mechanism capable of enhancing CHO mediated insulin release might augment postexercise glycogen resynthesis.

            The amino acid L-arginine, when administered intravenously to humans, has been shown to stimulate insulin release (11). It has also been demonstrated to enhance insulin release induced by glucose (10), possibly by amplifying the glucose-induced signal in the pancreatic β-cell. Another physiological function of L-arginine is as a precursor to nitric oxide, which influences vascular smooth muscle tone. Increased availability of L-arginine has been shown to induce peripheral vasodilation (16) and thereby has the potential to increase muscle blood flow. As a consequence of these latter two effects, L-arginine has been shown to increase insulin-mediated glucose uptake in healthy human subjects (21). Dietary supplementation with relatively large amounts of L-arginine (∼25 g), in humans has been found to result in higher postprandial plasma insulin concentrations (3).

            There is considerable interest in the optimization of muscle glucose uptake and glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exercise, as evidenced by the many different CHO-containing beverages marketed for postexercise energy replenishment. Prolonged consumption (7 d) of a high-arginine diet (∼ 25 g·d-1), however, was shown to cause excessive loss of sodium in the urine, an associated loss of water and decrease in body weight (3). High doses of L-arginine are also unpalatable (personal observation) and cause gastrointestinal discomfort in some individuals (15). These side effects of high-dose L-arginine consumption could obviously have a negative effect on postexercise CHO repletion.

            Exercise mode is known to have a differential effect on postexercise muscle glycogen resynthesis. For example, prolonged concentric exercise depletes muscle glycogen stores and results in rapid glucose transport and the supercompensation of muscle glycogen stores if adequate CHO is supplied in the immediate postexercise period (4). Conversely, resistance exercise is not known to markedly increase muscle insulin sensitivity (8) and exercise that has a significant eccentric component can significantly impair postexercise glycogen resynthesis (9,22).

            The purpose of the present study therefore was to determine whether a palatable and tolerated quantity of L-arginine could influence blood flow and the fate of ingested CHO in individuals who had performed no exercise or exercise aimed at altering glucose disposal.

            http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Ab...ercise_.9.aspx

            Chin J Physiol. 2009 Jun 30;52(3):136-42.

            Effects of arginine supplementation on post-exercise metabolic responses.

            Tsai PH, Tang TK, Juang CL, Chen KW, Chi CA, Hsu MC.
            Source: Department of Physical Education, Yuanpei University, Hsin Chu, Taiwan, Republic of China.

            Abstract

            This study investigated the effects of arginine supplementation on acute metabolic responses during recovery after a single bout of endurance exercise in trained athletes. Twelve healthy male judo athletes were randomly divided into two groups and performed a single bout of exercise at a speed estimated to correspond to 75%VO2max for 60 min, and then took either a placebo or arginine at 0.1 g/kg-wt. Blood samples of each athlete were collected before exercise, and 0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120 min after exercise, respectively. The experiment was repeated two weeks later, but treatments were exchanged for the two groups. The concentrations of glucose, insulin, free fatty acid (FFA), glycerol, lactate, ammonia, creatine kinase, and NOx (NO2(-) + NO3(-)) in blood were examined. No differences in the levels of glycerol, lactate, ammonia, creatine kinase, or NOx between the two groups were observed at any of the time points. However, the concentration of glucose was significantly higher in the arginine group as compared to that in the placebo group at the 15-min recovery point. The insulin concentration was also higher in the arginine group as compared to that in the placebo group at the 30-min recovery point. Furthermore, the free fatty acid levels at the 30, and 45-min recovery points were significantly lower in the arginine group compared to those in the placebo group. The results indicated that arginine supplementation during the exercise recovery period could increase glucose and insulin concentrations, and decrease FFA availability in the blood.

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19777799



            Effects of carbohydrate, branched-chain amino acids, and arginine in recovery period on the subsequent performance in wrestlers.

            J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2011 Nov 22;8(1):21. [Epub ahead of print]

            Jang TR, Wu CL, Chang CM, Hung W, Fang SH, Chang CK.

            ABSTRACT: Many athletes need to participate in multiple events in a single day. The efficient post-exercise glycogen recovery may be critical for the performance in subsequent exercise. This study examined whether post-exercise carbohydrate supplementation could restore the performance in the subsequent simulated wrestling match. The effect of branched-chain amino acids and arginine on glucose disposal and performance was also investigated. Nine well-trained male wrestlers participated in 3 trials in a random order. Each trial contained 3 matches with a 1-hr rest between match 1 and 2, and a 2-hr rest between match 2 and 3. Each match contained 3 exercise periods interspersed with 1-min rests. The subjects alternated 10-s all-out sprints and 20-s rests in each exercise period. At the end of match 2, 3 different supplementations were consumed: 1.2 g/kg glucose (CHO trial), 1 g/kg glucose + 0.1 g/kg Arg + 0.1 g/kg BCAA (CHO+AA trial), or water (placebo trial). The peak and average power in the 3 matches was similar in the 3 trials. After the supplementation, CHO and CHO+AA trial showed significantly higher glucose and insulin, and lower glycerol and non-esterified fatty acid concentrations than the placebo trial. There was no significant difference in these biochemical parameters between the CHO and CHO+AA trials. Supplementation of carbohydrate with or without BCAA and arginine during the post-match period had no effect on the performance in the following simulated match in wrestlers. In addition, BCAA and arginine did not provide additional insulinemic effect.

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22107883


            Just some food for thought...
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            • #7
              BTW, the only real N.O. products are script drugs for E.D.
              Follow my NEW journal if you please:


              http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=48304

              "They say I'm no good...cause I'm so hood, rich folks do not want me around" 50

              "You are you. That is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You."
              Dr. Seuss


              I would like to thank all the stupid people of the world. Without you guys I would only be average.


              "Tell them bitches get a stick I'm done leading the blind"
              Nicki Minaj

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