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  • Chaos and Pain

    Let's talk about it.

    For those of you who are lost, this "style" of training consists of high frequency, high intensity training of compound movements...put forth by Jamie Lewis from chaosandpain.blogspot.com (it's Broz-esque/Bulgarian-style).

    This is currently how I'm training and I'm a fan. I’ll be honest in saying that I haven’t been training like this long enough to judge the long-term efficacy, but it’s fun and focuses on things that I know to be efficacious (heavy training of the major compound movements). I guess it's a bit weird to call it a real training style as there is a lot of room for flexibility. However, I think the idea of upping your frequency and training heavier, more often with a greater focus on auto-regulation rather than planned periodization is something that I think can benefit the more advanced lifters.

    I don't have years worth of experience training like this, so I don't know, but my experience so far has been…interesting. I trained 5-6 days in a row going heavy every single day on a different compound movement. One day I would come in and squat 475x6x2, the next day I’d clean 245x10x2 and the very next day I came in and pulled multiple sets of 2 at 535. I was feeling great, but this was towards the end of an exam period and I really slacked off in the rest/sleep department so I ended up getting very sick for 2-3 days. I’m guessing this wasn’t coincidence. Regardless, I’m back at it now, but am being more careful about taking lighter/off days.

    I guess I should say that I don't agree 100% with what Jamie Lewis talks about... I do feel that overtraining should be a concern for most advanced lifters who lead real lives (job/school/associated stress) and I don't think working up to multiple 2-a-days a week is something that is practical for someone who isn't a professional/career lifter even if they compete...

    However, I do think that for those of us who are more "in tune" with our training/body, auto-regulation may allow us to train more optimally than cookie-cutter programs/periodization. This also isn't to say that some sort of periodization isn't necessary especially when prepping for a meet. At this point, however, I feel that I just won't get as much out of something like the traditional 5x5 (something I hammered away at for years). I also have experience training using the 5/3/1 template... but how I train now isn't too far off from 5/3/1 except for the fact that I'll incorporate heavy work sets on compound lifts other than the squat/bench/dead/military press. Back off days/weeks are also done more through 'feel'. There is a component of auto-regulation in 5/3/1 as well... the last set is done by 'feel' as well...

    Anyway—was wondering what everyone else experience has been with this or something analogous, if any. Hope what I posted was coherent enough to spark discussion haha.
    True Protein Discount Code: AWC155


  • #2
    For what its worth jamie lewis just put up the 3rd highest all time and 2nd highest total at 181 with no belt, no wraps, and reverse grip bench at RUM V
    For Training Inquiries go see the HNIC [email protected] anything else is uncivilized

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    • #3
      love reading his stuff, age and injuries make it impossible to run with most of his ideas but his mental approach is awesome. also makes you realize that overtraining is NOT the hobgoblin everyone makes it out to be....
      Last edited by trucelt; 02-03-2012, 12:48 AM.
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      • #4
        Do u eat like him too? Haven't read his page in a while but I remember rips and shakes lol. Cravin ribs now damn

        Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

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        • #5
          I enjoy his writing style and topics. I also appreciate that he believes in incredible human potential and doesn't place arbitrary limitations on himself or others.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by AndrewGpv03 View Post
            I enjoy his writing style and topics. I also appreciate that he believes in incredible human potential and doesn't place arbitrary limitations on himself or others.
            This.

            I like and I've had success with it as well.
            "You can't be the fastest or the strongest but you can always work the hardest." - Jim Wendler

            "Failing is nothing more than inexperience" - Jim Wendler

            "You won't have to rotate squats and deadlifts, but do them both and thus get more fucking awesome every week" - cooltom

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            • #7
              I am a fan, thanks for posting.

              Once I fix my hip issues, I am definitely training beltless. This guys abs are STICKING OUT OF HIS SINGLET ON HIS SQUATS.

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              • #8
                *Note to self*

                Never click Chaos and Pain website while at work. I think that was the fastest I have ever hit "windows key + d" in my life. God damn, that would have been great reading material for the next few hours since it is a slow day today. Oh well, guess I gotta work instead.
                Last edited by SkinnyMike42; 02-03-2012, 10:59 AM.

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                • #9
                  you can set it so it shows up work safe, with no pics

                  I love his blog, dude is hilarious and right 95% of the time
                  CEO of Morphogen Nutrition
                  MorphogenNutrition.com



                  2012 NPC Natural Ohio
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bhman6 View Post
                    you can set it so it shows up work safe, with no pics

                    I love his blog, dude is hilarious and right 95% of the time
                    I talk to Jamie at least once a week via email and he's definitely a funny guy and he's actually a nice guy too(man crush? maybe) He might comedown here in April and do the APA Raw Nationals.

                    If you guys read some of his more recent blogs about people emailing him asking to set up their training, he, in his own way, will tell you that's where you are missing the point and it's about thinking for yourself.

                    "If you want to "do Chaos and Pain", asking me to program your workouts is obviously not the way to go about it. The entire point of this methodology is to find what works best for you and do it, and to throw off the strictures and shackles heaped upon you by a weak-minded and -bodied society to find your own way. It's to try new shit, push yourself harder and farther than everyone else, and transcend the mediocrity of the masses to achieve excellence. It's not about doing what I fucking tell you, because I'm not in the business of telling people what to fucking do. The very idea someone would want to be told what to do fucking disgusts me. For the love of all that's fucking holy, don't bend your knee to me- I neither want acolytes nor need them. I wish for nothing more than other people to get off their knees, stop sucking the cocks of supposed gurus because it's popular to do so and far easier than thinking for your fucking self, and do something epic. I leave the demagoguery to people like Mark Rippetoe and Zach Evan-Esh, because I choose to lead by example. If you motherfuckers want to follow me where my path takes me, that's fine by me- I'm happy to beat down the fucking bushes and blaze a path for like-minded individuals. I will not, however, carry you motherfuckers in a loving embrace and gently part the palm fronds for you. Think for your fucking selves and DO for your fucking selves."

                    Jamie Lewis via his blog
                    For Training Inquiries go see the HNIC [email protected] anything else is uncivilized

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by grammo13 View Post
                      Do u eat like him too? Haven't read his page in a while but I remember rips and shakes lol. Cravin ribs now damn

                      Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk
                      When dieting, he doesn't do anything really complex. Low carbs for 2-5 days, then a refeed period. This is essentially what I do and basically what everyone does. I'll take periods of lower carbs and bump the carbs up or have a 'refeed' when I'm feeling flat or losing too quickly. I try not to make it too complicated because honestly it doesn't need to be. Then again, I'm not trying to sit at 3% bf.

                      Originally posted by AndrewGpv03 View Post
                      I enjoy his writing style and topics. I also appreciate that he believes in incredible human potential and doesn't place arbitrary limitations on himself or others.
                      I think this is one of the biggest things you can take away from his blog. It's nice to appreciate that the human body is actually capable of a lot more than you would think.

                      Originally posted by SkinnyMike42 View Post
                      I am a fan, thanks for posting.

                      Once I fix my hip issues, I am definitely training beltless. This guys abs are STICKING OUT OF HIS SINGLET ON HIS SQUATS.
                      I differ with him here. I always put on my belt with anything over 405 on the squat/deadlift. I feel much more stable and safer with the belt. Furthermore, it's not like if you wear a belt you suddenly stop using your abs haha.

                      Originally posted by DCBliever View Post
                      I talk to Jamie at least once a week via email and he's definitely a funny guy and he's actually a nice guy too(man crush? maybe) He might comedown here in April and do the APA Raw Nationals.

                      If you guys read some of his more recent blogs about people emailing him asking to set up their training, he, in his own way, will tell you that's where you are missing the point and it's about thinking for yourself.

                      "If you want to "do Chaos and Pain", asking me to program your workouts is obviously not the way to go about it. The entire point of this methodology is to find what works best for you and do it, and to throw off the strictures and shackles heaped upon you by a weak-minded and -bodied society to find your own way. It's to try new shit, push yourself harder and farther than everyone else, and transcend the mediocrity of the masses to achieve excellence. It's not about doing what I fucking tell you, because I'm not in the business of telling people what to fucking do. The very idea someone would want to be told what to do fucking disgusts me. For the love of all that's fucking holy, don't bend your knee to me- I neither want acolytes nor need them. I wish for nothing more than other people to get off their knees, stop sucking the cocks of supposed gurus because it's popular to do so and far easier than thinking for your fucking self, and do something epic. I leave the demagoguery to people like Mark Rippetoe and Zach Evan-Esh, because I choose to lead by example. If you motherfuckers want to follow me where my path takes me, that's fine by me- I'm happy to beat down the fucking bushes and blaze a path for like-minded individuals. I will not, however, carry you motherfuckers in a loving embrace and gently part the palm fronds for you. Think for your fucking selves and DO for your fucking selves."

                      Jamie Lewis via his blog
                      I think autoregulation and thinking for yourself should be a step that all advanced lifters should take. I think in the beginning and early intermediate stages, you can definitely benefit from template-oriented training. As much as he hates on the 5x5... there's no better way for beginners to train, in my opinion.
                      True Protein Discount Code: AWC155

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