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  • Opinions on Barbell complex after main weights session?

    Just interested to hear a few opinions on doing a barbell complex twice a week at the end of a weights session as a form of cardio.
    was thinking something like:

    deadlift x10
    bor x10
    hang clean x10
    ohp x10
    overhead squat x10

    x2/3


    this is as well as doing HIIT on an exercise bike for 20mins twice a week on non training days.

  • #2
    I have done this before as part of a 4 week conditioning block. Will def. Kick your ass depending on your regular wo, how many rounds you do of this pwo and you rest periods in between rounds...etc.
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    • #3
      so i was thinking of throwing it in after OHP and Bench day on 5/3/1, probably 2 rounds.

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      • #4
        id pick a fairly light weight, so 40kg or around there.

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        • #5
          When I did mine I did ut with approx. 65lbs and it was a lung breaker for me lol
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          • #6
            I don't really get why you are doing this....if its cause you enjoy it then have fun, if its for conditioning then go for it (but I wouldn't be running 5,3,1 if that was the objective) but if its to lose some fat while running 5,3,1..... Then IMHO you would be much better served by just eating less. This will hinder your strength/size progress much more than cutting out a reasonable amount of cals will.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by thedunhill225 View Post
              I don't really get why you are doing this....if its cause you enjoy it then have fun, if its for conditioning then go for it (but I wouldn't be running 5,3,1 if that was the objective) but if its to lose some fat while running 5,3,1..... Then IMHO you would be much better served by just eating less. This will hinder your strength/size progress much more than cutting out a reasonable amount of cals will.
              I thought you were gonna say to just do regular cardio....I personally think lower cals/macros will have someone suffering more than adding in any form of cardio. I like to eat though, so I would always choose more food and more work over less food.....Obviously I realize though that sooner or later cals will need to be dropped. I personally would prefer it to be later....
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              • #8
                See what Wendler recommends on this. I know he likes to do a lot of sled dragging/ hill sprints for his conditioning work. It is fucking winter though, so this may be a good substitute. I would probably drop your input maxes by 10 lbs if you start this.

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                • #9
                  I would stay with sprints on a treadmill incline before a barbell complex. That is usually what Jim recommends, if it is too cold outside, or don't have access to a prowler. He doesn't like LISS at all.

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                  • #10
                    Try it and see how you respond to it.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by neme View Post
                      Try it and see how you respond to it.
                      ding ding
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by steel1970 View Post
                        I thought you were gonna say to just do regular cardio....I personally think lower cals/macros will have someone suffering more than adding in any form of cardio. I like to eat though, so I would always choose more food and more work over less food.....Obviously I realize though that sooner or later cals will need to be dropped. I personally would prefer it to be later....
                        I know most here won't agree, and if you are a 'supplemented' athlete it may not matter, but I am not the biggest fan of 'HIIT' cardio if you are trying to retain muscle. I think you are sending your body mixed messages when you perform HIIT. Your body does whatever it can to make the demands you place on it easier and less demanding....all your adaptations are your bodies attempts at self protection and self preservation. You adapt to weight training by getting bigger and stronger because that makes heavy wt training less demanding BUT getting bigger and stronger, or even just maintaining the muscle you have if you have enough, will make HIIT MORE demanding and not less demanding.

                        I know many will have a different opinion and as I said.... All rules change if an athlete is 'supplemented' enough.

                        Peace.
                        Follow my NEW journal if you please:


                        http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=48304

                        "They say I'm no good...cause I'm so hood, rich folks do not want me around" 50

                        "You are you. That is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You."
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                        I would like to thank all the stupid people of the world. Without you guys I would only be average.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by thedunhill225 View Post
                          I know most here won't agree, and if you are a 'supplemented' athlete it may not matter, but I am not the biggest fan of 'HIIT' cardio if you are trying to retain muscle. I think you are sending your body mixed messages when you perform HIIT. Your body does whatever it can to make the demands you place on it easier and less demanding....all your adaptations are your bodies attempts at self protection and self preservation. You adapt to weight training by getting bigger and stronger because that makes heavy wt training less demanding BUT getting bigger and stronger, or even just maintaining the muscle you have if you have enough, will make HIIT MORE demanding and not less demanding.

                          I know many will have a different opinion and as I said.... All rules change if an athlete is 'supplemented' enough.

                          Peace.
                          Get the best anabolic response from exercise by performing sprint intervals and heavy strength training. Exercise causes physiological stress, and two common pitfalls of training are putting too much or too little stress on the body because lead to a catabolic, muscle degrading environment. Intense sprint intervals will trigger a cortisol stress hormone response, but if you program your sprints the right way, you can trigger a greater testosterone response and shift the body into an anabolic state. To maximally manipulate the stress response and manage cortisol, do both sprints and a high volume of heavy strength training.


                          A new study in the British Journal of Sports Medicine compared the hormone response of two sprint interval protocols and a circuit training program. The study measured testosterone and cortisol in trained young men and had them perform the following three exercise trials: a 30-minute tempo run at lactate threshold, 30-minutes of intense intervals (3 minutes at 90 percent of maximal with 2 minute recovery), and 30-minutes of circuit weight training in which participants lifted for 30 seconds and then had a 30 second recovery.

                          Only the intervals triggered a significant testosterone response, indicating that a high-intensity is necessary to produce an anabolic environment. The tempo run and the circuit training did raise testosterone above resting levels, but not to a point that was statistically significant. Rating of perceived exertion was also measured and was highest following the intervals as well, indicating that the most challenging mode elicited the greatest anabolic response. RPE was 16 out of 20 for the intervals, compared to the tempo run that was 15, and circuit training that was 13, pointing to an association between level of difficulty and testosterone response. Heart rate was also associated with a favorable anabolic response, indicating that monitoring peak heart rate when training could be a strategy for monitoring testosterone production.

                          Cortisol was highest after the intervals, but because of the greater testosterone response, the ratio between the two was more favorable for muscle and tissue building. The tempo run also triggered cortisol, but because the testosterone response was minimal, the ratio was less favorable. The circuit training program resulted in a minimal cortisol and testosterone response, indicating that it was not strenuous enough to be effective for tissue remodeling. Researchers did not include the weights used for the circuit training program in the research report, but it is likely the weights lifted were not very heavy because a 30-seconds on, 30-seconds off program can be extremely challenging if performed at a heavy weight and high speed.

                          Previous evidence supports the researchers’ conclusion that a high level of intensity is necessary to raise testosterone from sprinting and resistance training. For example, research shows that heavy lifts with a high volume will trigger the most testosterone and the good news is that data show that performing a weight training program is an ideal way to offset the bump in cortisol that comes with sprinting.

                          One study of rugby players from New Zealand found that a training protocol that includes 4 exercises for 3 sets of 4 reps at 85 percent of the one RM results in the most favorable anabolic response, producing a 38 percent decrease in cortisol from resting levels. In fact, the study compared the 85 percent protocol with three others that were matched for volume (performed at 70 percent of the 1RM, 55 percent of the 1RM, and 40 percent of the 1RM), and all four resulted in a drop in cortisol following training.Maximize tissue and muscle building by ensuring you are doing the following four things:

                          1) Perform strength training with a high volume of heavy lifts. Use large muscle groups and multi-joint exercises such as Olympic lifts, squats, deadlifts, and chest press.

                          2) Perform sprint intervals at a high intensity—but don’t overdo it and send yourself into a catabolic state.

                          3) Shoot for a heart rate in the 85 to 90 percent of max range for the greatest testosterone response from sprint intervals.

                          4) Avoid going too easy—this won’t boost testosterone but will produce cortisol, causing a tissue degrading state.

                          References: Tanner, A., Nielsen, B., et al. Salivary Steroid Hormone Response in Trained Men to Running and Circuit Training Sessions. British Journal of Sports Medicine. December 2011. 45(15), A6.
                          "You can't be the fastest or the strongest but you can always work the hardest." - Jim Wendler

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by thedunhill225 View Post
                            I know most here won't agree, and if you are a 'supplemented' athlete it may not matter, but I am not the biggest fan of 'HIIT' cardio if you are trying to retain muscle. I think you are sending your body mixed messages when you perform HIIT. Your body does whatever it can to make the demands you place on it easier and less demanding....all your adaptations are your bodies attempts at self protection and self preservation. You adapt to weight training by getting bigger and stronger because that makes heavy wt training less demanding BUT getting bigger and stronger, or even just maintaining the muscle you have if you have enough, will make HIIT MORE demanding and not less demanding.

                            I know many will have a different opinion and as I said.... All rules change if an athlete is 'supplemented' enough.


                            Peace.
                            Believe me, I'm not at HIIT guy by any means. I was speaking really only to the calorie lowering. I just prefer to keep cals as high as possible.....
                            STEEL




                            "SIMPLICITY, CONSISTENCY, INTENSITY"

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                            • #15
                              LandryP,

                              And?? I have not seen one study that showed any increase in strength or muscle mass based on a hormonal response from exercise. If you have any, please share. The article you cut and pasted (I didn't see who you credited as the author?) doesn't give any examples showing an increase in muscle size or strength because of a hormonal response either. It would be pretty simple to show....if it happened.
                              Follow my NEW journal if you please:


                              http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=48304

                              "They say I'm no good...cause I'm so hood, rich folks do not want me around" 50

                              "You are you. That is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You."
                              Dr. Seuss


                              I would like to thank all the stupid people of the world. Without you guys I would only be average.


                              "Tell them bitches get a stick I'm done leading the blind"
                              Nicki Minaj

                              Comment

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