N.O.V. LOL...right!

[Shawn "Future" Bellon]

Jim Wendler appeals to many different lifters but normally a small demo that appeals to his constant f bomb drops, heavy metal love (music) and more or less challenging the manhood of teens and early 20 year olds. Welcome the concept: N.O.V. It stands for NORTH OF VAG(ina).

I wasn't sure what to think of this because really the concept was more T-Nation and Elite marketing/showmanship but honestly I just think it is downright disrespectful to females. The ISOM for November displayed YET AGAIN that we have some ladies that are just as intense if not more intense as male lifters. Many know that my wife was a bodybuilder and is currently working on making a comeback into bodybuilding. I watched her do dips with 70 lbs for 10 reps while weighing 126 lbs! I guess if she had a penis should would have done 5 times that amount.

N.O.V. really stands more for an epidemic of just putting down others without thinking. NO THIS ISNT ABOUT BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT. N.O.V. really means "thoughtless labeling" (for marketing purposes?..hmm). The strength world is not about gender. It is about doing your best and taking up the iron in your hands. Having Hello Kitty lifting gloves has nothing to do with it. Let's end this stupidity while giving respect where respect is due.

I like Jim as a lifter and coach...but...N.O.V. is narrow-minded thinking at its best. Let's stop tearing down others to feel better about ourselves.

[Doberman]

Well said Shawn.

[Adam2433]

I enjoyed Wendler's stuff in the beginning but I feel it is all played up a lot now that it took off. Similar to Matt Rhodes's "Rhodestown" (which I couldn't stand). But I think you're being a little overly sensitive to it. So even if he's overplaying the idea now I think its initial inception was funny and helped drive one of Jim's points behind his philosophies... Want to be a big man? Lift big weight, not something a woman would handle.

Let's be honest, regardless of what the women on this site, your wife or any other top shelf female bodybuilder/powerlifter lifts it pales in comparison to what they would handle if they were in fact men. That's not a knock on them just a genetic fact.

[Jeff Grant]

It would be interesting to hear what some of the IM women think on this one. Personally, I don't think it was not MEANT to be negative to women at all. I mean, there are women powerlifters in their videos doing awesome things. I think he just meant it in the context of man up, take off your skirt, quit being a candy ass. Hell, whenever I start to complain about something, my wife tells me to put my big girl pants on...god that really pisses me off

[Doberman]

I agree that he probably didn't mean it to put women down. Hell, I don't know what is in another persons heart, but I do think there was a better, less juvenile way to make the point.

[Shawn "Future" Bellon]

Well when you market t-shirts and Beanies...well...I think its pretty deliberate.

I get the idea of genetics but I am also stronger than 99% of the population and I do t think that gives me license to discredit others. Sure slightly sensitive on my part and somewhat biased but I feel I am pro lifter, period.

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[RedSkull]

Probably much in the same way those who talk about being an "alpha male" on a message board probably aren't, if they actually have t-shirts with the NOV stuff on it, you can bet whoever wearing it is probably the opposite of what they are trying to project.

It's not a very witty or clever concept, then again neither is Lil Wayne... lol

[Shawn "Future" Bellon]

Wouldn't NOV really reference boobs?

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[phoenix13]

I appreciate Shawn making his point on this. I can be very sensitive and am inclined to see it the same way. Mainly, I don't see the need to "motivate" men by using shame tactics which are derogatory toward women. (Push a 7 lbs. watermelon through your VAG and let's see some tough. There are different types of strength.) It's using negativity doubled. It seems rather adolescent as well, but that's probably the audience he's targeting. It can work, but there are other, more positive and affirming ways to motivate. I'll admit, I call myself a pussy or bitch when I stop a set short of where I know I could have taken it. I try not to do that, but it's a habit. When I really think about what I'm saying and implying with it, I do think it's disrespectful, and in a greater sense disempowering - even if it does fuel an extra rep.

I also see Adam's point. Being physically strong is traditionally a male attribute. We've evolved quite a bit as a species, and there is a degree of greater equality between the genders, but differences still do and will always exist.

I guess it just depends how seriously you want to take it. Where do you draw the line? It's one thing to be an asshole in my head, it's another to market it, sell it, encourage it. Or is it?

[Shawn "Future" Bellon]

Would love to hear more from the ladies on this. I know Laura Phelps might take exception as well. LOL

[Michael Travis]

I agree with the lines of thought that Shawn and Phoenix are presenting. Personally, as long as there are women out there that can lift more than me (and there are very very many), I would never use these lines of thought, as I do think it is just an attempt to appeal to certain mens' baser mindsets of toughness.


MT

[Jeff Grant]

(Push a 7 lbs. watermelon through your VAG and let's see some tough. There are different types of strength.)

lol Perfect. My wife had our twins naturally, and I can say without a doubt... lifting any kind of weight, for any number of reps, in any field of gravity cannot, in any way, compete with it. It would have won ISOM for sure. lol

[nator]

The whole N.O.V thing does not really bother me personally, but I can see how others would see it is insulting or in a way referring to our female lifting counterparts as second class. In response I submit a video of my friend Samantha. I doubt very many 19 year old 123lb guys squat 295 with this much ease. Not to mention she trains with just as much intensity and gumption as any guy I have ever lifted with. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgw-BZ5wUcU

[mentalflex]

Shawn, I agree with your stance on Wendler's N.O.V movement. I think Wendler is using his position and appeal with young trainees and "badass" personal to market the idea of "manliness" through a mindless label by comparing men against women. Is it really being a man to give yourself value by comparing yourself to another gender? I see it as way to give these individuals something to grasp onto to provide a level of superficial value in their life and gain perspective on who they are, when they kack the ability to truly define themselves through their own actions and internal motivation.

I hope I make sense and this came out right, but the man certainly knows hopw to market to to his target demographic, you do have to give to him that.

[addmuscle]

Just to give Jim a little credit here, in regards to attitudes towards women, this is something he wrote on T-nation recently. Juliet Deane is his fiancee.

John - Teamwork and the ideas presented here are a small part of our Family Code. So while we are always inspired, a certain happening or incident didn't really spark this one. Everyday, Juliet and I work hard as a team at everything; our business, our personal lives, our sons, our training, personal development, etc. BESIDE every great man is a great woman.