Dairy?

I know Skip & others don't like dairy, and it is often a controversial topic. I was just reading an article regarding the difference between dairy traditionally and now. It was basically saying that traditionally cows had a much better life and hence the milk was a higher quality. They roamed somewhat free, breathed fresh air, ate grass, weren't given hormones, and were only milked for 6 weeks after birth. Today cows live in a pen, stand in their own feces, are given antibiotics to stay "healthy" in these conditions, are fed corn vs grass, are given GH, and are being milked almost year round, and are inseminated only a few months after giving birth, which can compromise the immune system and decrease milk quality.

So, all this leads to poor production, poor quality, high estrogen content, and loss of important fatty acids and fat-soluble vitamins. Dairy from pasture-raised grass-fed cows however are actually allowed to eat what they were designed to eat, their milk quality is vastly superior – containing more actual nutrition like increased levels of vitamin A, omega-3s, and CLA. Grass-fed cows have been found to contain up to 500% more CLA.

I hadn't thought of this before and wondered if this is what Skip and others are thinking when they say they don't like dairy.

[Pheedno]

I think that could be a part of it. I have a grassfed farm about an hour from me and the owner took me on a tour and explained, in detail, the differences. It was pretty amazing, actually. I buy from him, some. Another part of dairy is lactose intol. I cant handle it at all, but I suspect even people with allergies to it that dont physically manifest still could have underlying issues you wouldn't even catch on to, at the onset.
I see it as a precaution thing. I know a couple of guys that eat cottage cheese and milk all day and get very well conditioned so it's been proven against. When you're dealing with dozens or even hundreds, probably just better to keep it simple and x it out. More reasoning odds than casting the whole product out.

[riverhawk23]

I know Mountain Dog loves his raw milk, so much so that he lets his twins boys drink it. Hopefully he can chime in and shed more light to this.

[bbjeff86]

I know Skip & others don't like dairy, and it is often a controversial topic. I was just reading an article regarding the difference between dairy traditionally and now. It was basically saying that traditionally cows had a much better life and hence the milk was a higher quality DEFINE BETTER LIFE FOR A COW. They roamed somewhat free, breathed fresh air, ate grass, weren't given hormones, and were only milked for 6 weeks after birth. Today cows live in a pen, stand in their own feces, are given antibiotics to stay "healthy" in these conditions, are fed corn vs grass, are given GH, and are being milked almost year round, and are inseminated only a few months after giving birth, which can compromise the immune system and decrease milk quality. I'M NOT ARGUEING THAT GRASS FED MILK ISN'T BETTER, BUT YOU AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE A GROSS MISUNDERSTANDING OF WHAT GOES ON AT MOST DAIRY FARMS. I GREW UP ON A DAIRY FARM, WENT TO MANY OTHER DAIRY FARMS, KNEW MANY DAIRY FARMERS, AND 95% OF THEM DON'T FIT INTO THE MOLD YOU ARE CASTING. OUR COWS, AND MOST DAIRY COWS (DESPITE WHAT PETA CLAIMS) HAD/HAVE A MIXED DIET OF GRASS, ALFALFA (A TYPE OF GRASS WITH MORE NUTRIENTS), SILAGE, AND CORN. CORN WAS BY NO MEANS THE MAJORITY OF THE DIET. THEY ARE NOT TYPICALLY KEPT IN SMALL PENS STANDING IN THEIR OWN FECES EXCEPT WHEN THE WEATHER DEEMS, BUT EVEN THEN THEY ARE KEPT FAIRLY CLEAN. THEY ARE MILKED MORE THAN 6 WEEKS TO KEEP UP WITH GLOBAL DEMAND, BUT THEY DO GET DRIED UP AND GET BRAKES, THEY ARE NOT CONSTANTLY BEING MILKED. THEY ARE ONLY GIVEN ANTIBIOTICS WHEN THEY ARE SICK OR ILL, THAT STUFF IS TOO COSTLY TO JUST FEED DAILY. NO DAIRY FARMERS TREAT THERE COWS WITH HORMONES ANYMORE BECAUSE OF A BUNCH OF MISGUIDED HIPPIES WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. WHEN COWS WERE BEING TREATED WITH THESE DRUGS TO INCREASE MILK PRODUCTION THERE WAS NO HORMONAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COWS MILK FROM A TREATED vs NON TREATED COW. I ALWAYS FIND THE HORMONE ARGUMENT AGAINST ANIMAL PRODUCTS COMMICAL COMING FROM FITNESS ENTHUSIASTS WHO TAKE ILLEGAL DRUGS, AND UN-REGULATED SUPPLEMENTS. WAS MILK QUALITY BETTER 200 YEARS AGO... PROBABLY, BUT MILK IS GREAT, IT GETS YOU BIG AND STRONG, AND IS NOT THE EVIL THAT MANY PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE.
So, all this leads to poor production, poor quality, high estrogen content, and loss of important fatty acids and fat-soluble vitamins. Dairy from pasture-raised grass-fed cows however are actually allowed to eat what they were designed to eat, their milk quality is vastly superior – containing more actual nutrition like increased levels of vitamin A, omega-3s, and CLA. Grass-fed cows have been found to contain up to 500% more CLA. I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED TO KNOW ALL THE SPECIFICS OF THE STUDIES THAT SHOW THIS... I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NOT TRUE... BUT MY GUESS WOULD BE THEY USED ALL GRASS FED COWS COMPARED TO ONE OF THE MINORITY FARMS THAT DOES PRACTICE THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED ABOVE... WHICH WOULDN'T BE AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF DAIRY PRODUCTS IN AMERICA.
I hadn't thought of this before and wondered if this is what Skip and others are thinking when they say they don't like dairy.

In bold and caps above.

[lhart6272]

^^^^^^better life for cow = not standing in shit in a stall. oh wait g-d gave us dominion over animals so never mind

if i chose to take hormone fine, doesnt mean i want my child drinking a bunch of it

ultimately i feel if we are going to raise something to kill and eat it we have some responsibility to ensuring it a reasonably decent existence, which sounds like on the farm you grew up on that effort was made

[Knickerbocker24]

YOU AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE A GROSS MISUNDERSTANDING OF WHAT GOES ON AT MOST DAIRY FARMS

I’m sure because of your upbringing you have some strong opinions on this topic and have probably had to defend this before. However, as mentioned in my post, this is not my belief...I was summarizing an article I read, so I don't have any misguided opinions. In fact, I don't know squat about dairy farms. This is a topic for discussion, my opinion is nowhere in that post.


BTW, what I was asking was not the validity of the facts of the article, which if you believe are incorrect are certainly on the table for discussion. But, I was asking if these ideas are why people don't like dairy because I had never thought about the things mentioned in the article before.

I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED TO KNOW ALL THE SPECIFICS OF THE STUDIES THAT SHOW THIS

Here are the references from the article you were interested in.

Malekinejad H, Scherpenisse P, Bergwerff A. Naturally Occurring Estrogens in Processed Milk and in Raw Milk (from Gestated Cows). J. Agric. Food Chem., 2006, 54 (26), pp 9785–9791

Qin LQ, et al. Estrogen: one of the risk factors in milk for prostate cancer. Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(1):133-42.

Ganmaa D, Sato A. The possible role of female sex hormones in milk from pregnant cows in the development of breast, ovarian and corpus uteri cancers. Med Hypotheses. 2005;65(6):1028-37.

Dhiman TR, Anand GR, et al. Conjugated linoleic acid content of milk from cows fed different diets. J Dairy Sci. 1999;82(10):2146-56.

[bbjeff86]

I’m sure because of your upbringing you have some strong opinions on this topic and have probably had to defend this before. However, as mentioned in my post, this is not my belief...I was summarizing an article I read, so I don't have any misguided opinions. In fact, I don't know squat about dairy farms. This is a topic for discussion, my opinion is nowhere in that post.


BTW, what I was asking was not the validity of the facts of the article, which if you believe are incorrect are certainly on the table for discussion. But, I was asking if these ideas are why people don't like dairy because I had never thought about the things mentioned in the article before



Here are the references from the article you were interested in.

Malekinejad H, Scherpenisse P, Bergwerff A. Naturally Occurring Estrogens in Processed Milk and in Raw Milk (from Gestated Cows). J. Agric. Food Chem., 2006, 54 (26), pp 9785–9791

Qin LQ, et al. Estrogen: one of the risk factors in milk for prostate cancer. Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(1):133-42.

Ganmaa D, Sato A. The possible role of female sex hormones in milk from pregnant cows in the development of breast, ovarian and corpus uteri cancers. Med Hypotheses. 2005;65(6):1028-37.

Dhiman TR, Anand GR, et al. Conjugated linoleic acid content of milk from cows fed different diets. J Dairy Sci. 1999;82(10):2146-56.

Thanks for the links I will look into them when I get time.

Sorry if I came across as harsh or angry toward you or anyone else. I'm not. Just trying to clear the air and shed light on the farm I grew up on and the 50+ farms (every single one I've had interaction with or knowledge about).

[Knickerbocker24]

Thanks for the links I will look into them when I get time.

No problem

Sorry if I came across as harsh or angry toward you or anyone else. I'm not. Just trying to clear the air and shed light on the farm I grew up on and the 50+ farms (every single one I've had interaction with or knowledge about).

Fair enough...no worries

[DirtyJohnson]

You may find this of interest. Here in California the "Real California Milk" seal is advertised a lot. I didn't read through much yet but I am interested now that you posted these questions. I love everything dairy so it sucks when I am dieting like now and can't have any.

real california milk

[Sammich]

Personally I discovered I had a fair amount of lactose intolerance when I worked with Skip for the first time. Since then I've learned to take lactase pills when I have it. Now in the mornings I've been having a bowl of shredded wheat with Lactaid milk and it's not been messing with my digestion at all.

[mentalflex]

I'm not going to go into the issues of the diet of animals and whether or not the quality of dairy from cows has changed, I am only referring to dairy's effects on me. I love dairy, although I don't drink milk, I use tons of Greek yogurt, yogurt, cottage cheese, and cheese. As part of my normal diet I have no issues with it. Maybe it makes me hold a little water, but no much. However, it I am doing a skipload and add in dairy, I get bloated as hell! I am thinking this is the combination of fast digesting carbs with something that is going to slow down digestion. Needless to say, I no longer eat diary when doing high carb re-feeds. This is just personal experience, so take it FWIW.

[Quadriceps]

Article by John Meadows about raw milk:

http://tnation.t-nation.com/strength...ng-topics/1284

[mentalflex]

Maybe John (or someone else who is knowledgeable of dairy) can comment, but would organic kefir be a more suitable option than regular milk?

I have not tried it yet, but from what I have read it has similar digestive enzymes and probiotics as raw milk. It is pretty protein dense and with several varieties available (e.g. low fat, low carb, fruit flavored...) you can find pretty much any style to fit your nutritional strategy.

[hyperintensity]

Cows milk is for baby cows. Breast milk is for baby humans. Kitty cat milk is for kittens, etc.

[LG1]

Heckman may vomit if he sees this thread lol