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  • Depression

    Would like a few opinions on this: I am usually a very happy go lucky person and even more so when I am cycleing. I just had skip prep me for 13 weeks for a show I did in late july and all thru out the prep I was as happy as can be , nothing seemed to bother me or get me down. I just started a 2nd prep with skip 2 weeks ago for a show in october but the thing is that I have been very depressed and just plain down in the dumps which is very not like me. I am not sure if it is the different compounds that are being used this time ( primobolan instead of eq, prop/ suspension instead of propinate ) that is the cause or is it that my body has not recouperated from the first prep. I took maybe 10- 14 days off from end of first prep to start of 2nd prep and I am not sure if my body or mind has fully recovered. Another point is that I have been using GH sinse last november and I always had a feeling of well being but eventhough it is being incorporated into this prep I do not have that same feeling of well being. I am a little over 10 weeks out for this next show and diet and traing are going good but I just cannot take this constant down in the dumps feeling day in day out. I have enough chemicals flowing thru me now so I do not want to take any sort of antidepressants.

  • #2
    Try using some ginseng-I believe it is an herb that helps with mood. See if you can find an herbalist or acupuncturist (they study herbs also) in your area.
    [email protected] http://www.proactivehealthnet.com

    " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake"
    Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction


    "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

    Comment


    • #3
      hey guy...been there a few times and i am a very upbeat person...iwoudl find out why you really feelingdown at times and go from there...soemtimes the stuff we take lowers your good mood hormones...like sport said find soem ginseng or st.Johns wort....but sometimes you need alil bigger boost so get a good massge from a sports dr who knows what to do for athletes and notr soem foo foo one from a run of the mill massager..good luck and it happens to all of us believe me so your in it alone bro...Pm me if you need to talk
      I will strike down upon thee with great vengence and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brother and you will know my name is the Lord when i lay my vengence upon thee ...

      Comment


      • #4
        Gorilla, Sounds like you serotonin levels are low. St. Johns Wart is good, but I would definitely add 5-HTP. Take 400mg/day of 5-HTP and you will feel great I guaranty it. The 5-HTP will stabilize your serotonin. It is a natural supplement that can be found in any health store.
        Information that bigpapapump presents is totally fictitious in nature and is presented for role playing purposes only. The opinions presented do not encourage the use of illegal substances nor take the place of professional medical advice

        Comment


        • #5
          Depression is one of the well known side effects of using AAS. Once you have completed a cycle even with PCT your LH will not be regulating your HPTA to the fullest exent to where your body would be in homeostasis like it was prior or during AAS use. In fact after the conclusion of a cycle your testoserone levels will drop up to 50% evemn with the use of PCT. At this time the estrogen that your body was producing to keep up with the increased testosterone is now at a higher level than the amount of test currently in circulation. This is the main reason people feel depressed is because of the hormonal shift. People use anti estrogens post cycle to keep estrogen levels down but still this remedy doesn't always work in every person. Even though you were using estrogen suppressors or blockers during your cycle , post cycle is evn more important as you want to keep estrogen levels to a minimum not only to prevent the catabolic phase your body enters but also to prevent hormonal shifts that create bouts of depression.

          Good thing is it isn't clinical depression. Once you hop on your next cycle those feelings will dissapate and also over the course of time as your HTPA begins to work in a normal capacity those feelings of depressuion will subside. Hope this helps bro.






          Maverick

          Comment


          • #6
            This was posted by Sachet at BM-

            Testosterone drives away the blues:
            May provide relief for some male depression
            By William J. Cromie
            Gazette Staff

            Harrison Pope, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, was looking for a few good men with severe depression and low levels of testosterone.

            In the 1940s, experiments showed that major depression can be relieved by injecting testosterone into men with low levels of that hormone. The treatment never caught on because the shots are painful, and effective antidepressant drugs started coming to market. More recently, however, testosterone patches and gels became available. In June 2000, the United States Food and Drug Administration approved a new form of gel for treating muscle loss, decreased sex drive, lack of energy, and other symptoms of so-called hypogonadism, or underactivity of the testes.

            Pope wondered if the gel might also help males with the combination of low testosterone and depression not treated successfully with drugs. He asked for and received a grant from Unimed Pharmaceuticals Corp., which makes a testosterone supplement known as AndroGel.

            The first question to answer was how frequently low testosterone occurs in American men with depression that cannot be controlled with drugs. "I requested enough money to screen 150 subjects with the hope of finding about 20 who fit that description," Pope recalls. "To my astonishment, it turned out to be no problem at all."

            Out of the first 56 men screened, Pope and his colleagues found 24 who had both low spirits and low levels of the hormone. That's more than 40 percent. "I never would have guessed that the prevalence of low testosterone levels would be so great in men not responding to antidepressant drugs," Pope comments.

            At McLean Hospital, a private psychiatric facility affiliated with Harvard Medical School, 12 men received small packets containing 2.5 grams of AndroGel. Another 10 subjects received identical packets containing a dummy, or placebo substance. By the end of the experiment, Pope found a significant improvement in mood among those taking testosterone compared with those using the dummy rub.

            Ten of the 12 men on the active gel completed the full eight-week study. Three showed almost no improvement, and four experienced only modest relief. However, three enjoyed "striking, dramatic gains," Pope notes. "While this was a very small study, the results clearly justify larger studies to explore the benefits and possible risks of testosterone replacement therapy for men with low levels of the hormone who find antidepressants ineffective."


            More muscle, less fat

            How many men might that be? Certainly more than everyone thought before the researchers found how common low testosterone levels are in depressed males not being helped sufficiently by the drugs they take.

            According to the team's report in the Jan. 1, 2003, issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry, in any given year 8 percent of American men over 30 years old will experience an episode of major depression. A substantial minority of these men will get only partial help, or none at all, from popular antidepressants. "If this refractory subgroup exhibits a 43 percent prevalence of low testosterone levels, as found in our study," notes Pope's report, "then hundreds of thousands of men in a given year might be candidates for further trials of the supplements. Given the size of this population, together with the increased availability and convenience of testosterone gels, it would seem important to assess carefully the benefits and risks of adding hormone replacement to antidepressant drugs."

            Normal men who take testosterone usually add muscle and lose fat. That occurred among those in the Harvard study, including subjects whose depression was not reduced. "One man, who got no psychiatric benefit at all, gained about 15 pounds of muscle mass and lost about 8 pounds of fat," Pope notes.

            Such results raise the issue of whether the supplements aid only the physical symptoms of depression such as loss of energy, libido, and appetite. To address that, Pope's group analyzed the responses of those who took the testosterone to a battery of psychological tests They found higher moods, less guilt and anxiety, and a decrease of suicidal thoughts. "These analyses suggest that the hormone can cause improvements in both the mind and body," Pope says.

            Evidence also exists that some women may be helped by testosterone supplements. Other studies hint that postmenopausal women, and those who have had their ovaries removed surgically, may reap some benefits in terms of improved mood and energy. But to avoid excess growth of hair, increased muscle mass, and other masculine side effects, doses would have to be much lower than those given to men.

            "It's something we should explore in the future," Pope maintains.


            Prostate cancer risk?

            Men who participated in the study have been referred back to their doctors. Those who did well on the gel have to decide whether to keep using it, a decision not without risk. The most alarming possibility involves prostate cancer. Hypogonadal men taking testosterone supplements for a year or two don't exhibit an increased risk for the disease. But younger men who take the hormone for decades to fight off depression (or build their muscles) might be at greater risk.

            Pope compares the situation to recent upsetting findings about estrogen replacement therapy in women, which conclude that long-term risks of using the hormones might outweigh benefits. Such risks include heart disease, breast, and ovarian cancer. Presently, there's no good evidence that decades-long use of testosterone increases a man's risk of prostate cancer, but that still doesn't prove that it's harmless.

            "We don't know exactly how testosterone reduces depression when antidepressants fail, nor do we know how high levels of the hormone might elevate cancer risk," Pope points out. Until more information becomes available, men face a tough choice.

            The three men who did so strikingly well with the testosterone gel might gladly accept a small risk of cancer, if such a risk exists. But those who reaped only modest benefit, or who just want to fuel a waxing sex drive or enjoy more energy and muscle, might not think the risk, no matter how phantom, is worth it.

            "You can't commit someone to taking testosterone for tens of years without a lot of thought and discussion," Pope notes. "In the end it comes down to an individual decision between a man and his doctor."


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            [email protected] http://www.proactivehealthnet.com

            " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake"
            Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction


            "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

            Comment


            • #7
              Anyone that may be interested in depression and possible new modes of treatment might want to check out this thread by Sachet-

              Depreeion and bioeloctromagnetics-
              http://intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=2481
              [email protected] http://www.proactivehealthnet.com

              " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake"
              Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction


              "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

              Comment


              • #8
                Good post bro. Pretty much goes into depth on what exactly what i said. Low levels of test and high estrogen = depression!! Nice back up. Its a good read for everybody.



                Maverick
                Last edited by Maverick; 08-18-2004, 03:10 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maverick,

                  The thing is that I am already on my next cycle for my next show. I have been using for the past 2 weeks. I could see the problem with comming off and using pct's but I have only really been off 2 weeks sinse april.




                  Originally posted by Maverick
                  Depression is one of the well known side effects of using AAS. Once you have completed a cycle even with PCT your LH will not be regulating your HPTA to the fullest exent to where your body would be in homeostasis like it was prior or during AAS use. In fact after the conclusion of a cycle your testoserone levels will drop up to 50% evemn with the use of PCT. At this time the estrogen that your body was producing to keep up with the increased testosterone is now at a higher level than the amount of test currently in circulation. This is the main reason people feel depressed is because of the hormonal shift. People use anti estrogens post cycle to keep estrogen levels down but still this remedy doesn't always work in every person. Even though you were using estrogen suppressors or blockers during your cycle , post cycle is evn more important as you want to keep estrogen levels to a minimum not only to prevent the catabolic phase your body enters but also to prevent hormonal shifts that create bouts of depression.

                  Good thing is it isn't clinical depression. Once you hop on your next cycle those feelings will dissapate and also over the course of time as your HTPA begins to work in a normal capacity those feelings of depressuion will subside. Hope this helps bro.






                  Maverick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gorilla,
                    What's your sleep cycle like, how much are you getting, when do you get sleep, when do you get sun light?
                    "The problem is not that there are problems. The problem is expecting otherwise and thinking that having problems is a problem." -
                    Theodore Rubin

                    Mod @ Proactivehealthnet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think we sometimes underestimate the toll it takes on our bodies getting ready for a show,physically and emotionally-show in July then another in October may be too close and/or too much-what does Skip think about your situation?-he'd know better than most
                      Livin' for the pump

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I just want to update everyone about the problem with the depression. I went to the ER tonite because I ahd a rash on my body that turned to blisters along with an intense pain in middle of back. The diagnosis was that I had shingles which is caused from your imune system being shot to hell ( common to aids patients and steroid users). Depression is one of the major sides along with intense pain. The doctor told me to get off the gear to get my system back up and running.

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