Keep GH in or out for contest prep ?

[gorilla2015]

I am preping for my 2nd contest with skip and I was thinking for this prep to keep the GH out. Skip seems not to be a big fan of it for prep but rather for off season . I have been using sinse last november at about 5 ius daily and ran it right up to 3 weeks out from show this past july. My positives are that I stayed a little bit leaner this past off season ( would have been better if I did not visit mcdonalds every day) and I was always in a good mood and my joints /tendons were pain free . Now for the contest prep I am not sure what positives it had as this was my first show but I was always in a good mood. I cannot relate if it had a better effect for stripping fat/ saving muscle as stated earlier this was my first show so I have no prior experience with or with out it. Negatives are that it makes my hair fall out like no other gear can but once I came off ( 3 weeks prior to show) my hair grew in like a forest. holding water can be a problem along with carpal tunnel in wrists. I have 4 kits / 79 days till show and would like to hear others opinions pros/ cons that have used GH for contest prep.

[hardkor]

I'm getting ready for a show as well (13 weeks out) and this is the first time i'm using HGH. I started 19 weeks out but started dieting from 15 weeks out. I'm here in Southern Cal where there are a lot of well known bb's and i don't know any good local/national level bb here that doesn't use it precontest. The anti catabolic effects along with the other benefits is enough reason for me to throw that into my mix of supps.

I guess what it boils down to is economics. If you can afford it, by all means use it. If money is tight, then i'm sure you'll still look well without it. I'm sure skip is right that HGH is more beneficial in the off season, but if it is truly an anticatabolic drug, for someone like me who has to lose 30+ lbs, it's totally worth it.

I say that since you already have the kits, use them. IMO, i don't think you could look better without it, if that's what you are asking. Yeah, the water retention and arthoritis sympons suck, but you'll be cutting it out 3 weeks before anyways so no worries. Hope this helps and good luck!

[xRAJAx]

I haven't done a contest prep, just wanted you to know that.

For me, I would just go with what Skip says. GH is great, but the edema you get from it may be a problem, and maybe one of the reasons skip doesn't like it precontest. Bottom line is that if I paid good money for a prep guy, I would go with what he says. Also, the hair coming out is strange. I'm running GH now in the off-season and I have the opposite effect. It causes hair loss for me to slow down when used with test. I've used two differnt types, and had the same effect. Just my opinions.

R

[homonunculus]

RAJA,

GH can decrease T3, which can cause hair loss.

-R

[SuperSport]

RAJA,

GH can decrease T3, which can cause hair loss.

-R

Interesting Randy....I wonder if alot of guys that lose their hair are deficient in thyroid or t-3 in particular?

[gorilla2015]

Homonunculus,

I was taking between 25 to 75 mcg of t-3 for the prep would this have to be increased to slow the hair loss and if not what can be used ?

[xRAJAx]

RAJA,

GH can decrease T3, which can cause hair loss.

-R

That's true in individuals with full on hypothroidism, they even lose their eyebrows and such. What I didn't know was that GH could put you in that state. I know it lowered it, but to cause Hypothroidism this side effect would be listed on the drug insert for all Growth hormone kits as this would be a major side effect. I wonder if its dose depandant....as I've never had any shedding with GH. Although I've never gone above 4iu a day either. Thanks for the info.

R

[MrAust92]

I would leave the GH in, great stuff for muscle preservation and fat loss.

Yes there is edema associated with its use but it you discontinue GH therapy 14 days out you should be fine.

Anti-e will have little effect on GH-induced edema as it is not estrogen related.

MA92

[massxpress]

I never used gh, but I have heard all the arguements. I think offseason use is better if one had to chose. :showoff:

[Ken Skip Hill]

There you go, MISquoting me in the main forum. If I was bigger than you, Gorrilla, I would kick you in the head. : ) j/k (sort of).

I much prefer to not have GH in my client's preps because it makes it very difficult to tell what is fat and what is water during the prep. I don't have a problem with it being in there at the start but when it gets down to below, say, 10 weeks it is a bitch to tell the true condition of someone who is holding 3 gallons of water in each leg. I am also not convinced that it spares muscle as much as everyone thinks it does. I have seen plenty of guys lose size while dropping weight too quickly and they were on plenty of GH.

I am NOT an expert on GH by any means. I was just giving my opinion of how I hate it in a prep because it makes my job more difficult and I have yet to see any obvious reasons as to why it is so good for prepping. I have probably seen more guys get into better condition without it than I have guys that have used it and that is not just my guys that I am referring to.

Just my opinion........

Skip


massxpress: I am impressed that you have not used GH given your physique.

Skip

[homonunculus]

Homonunculus,

I was taking between 25 to 75 mcg of t-3 for the prep would this have to be increased to slow the hair loss and if not what can be used ?

I would imagine that this would counter that, but I'm not an expert here by any means. The data is mixed from what I've seen, but I thought I might throw it out as a possibility.

It becomes complicated b/c a dietary caloric deficit will in and of itself reduce T3.

The dirtiest / easiest way is to measure your morning body temp. (sublingual is fine). Ideally, you have a baseline before you start dieting, but if you find that its much below 98.6?F (e.g., 97 would be fairly low), then you could try T3 to raise this.

I'm not a huge fan if T3 when dieting simply b/c I've read so many reports (and talked to guy / seen them go through it) of major muscle loss when dieting in T3. Worst case scenario is the competitor who tries to up T3 during the last few weeks before a show to get ultrashredded and ends up losing a boatload of muscle...

-R

[homonunculus]

That's true in individuals with full on hypothroidism, they even lose their eyebrows and such. What I didn't know was that GH could put you in that state. I know it lowered it, but to cause Hypothroidism this side effect would be listed on the drug insert for all Growth hormone kits as this would be a major side effect. I wonder if its dose depandant....as I've never had any shedding with GH. Although I've never gone above 4iu a day either. Thanks for the info.

R

Just an observation. I've never seen it from GH either (although I haven't used it for show prep., either.) I do notice that I tend to have some hair loss during the last month or so before a show, in lieu of any supplement changes, when I have to drop my kcal to get in shape...

-R

[joshb]

25-50mcg will not cause muscle loss especially if you are using test,tren, winnyetc. along with it. i would never use it with out some anabolic b/c then you are gonna lose some muscle for sure.

[Maverick]

Hmmm. alot of interested points in this thread. I was not aware that GH caused hair loss. I never knew there was a connection between the thyroid which regulates metabolism function and hair loss. I would like to read moere about that though as I think that would be an interesteing read. Living in the same town as Chad Nicholls and using his methods for my own pre contest and seeing the results of other ameteur athelets that use his advice I would have to say that GH is an effective tool that can be used in contest prep but it isn't absolutely necessary. In fact if you can get by without it then in my opinon you should becuase of what skip stated the water retention you get from it can be difficult to judge body fat when determining contest shape, however it does burn fat like no other when used properly and during my contest prep I help water but nothing I couldn't judge was water and what was fat.

The main point is I agree if you are paying skip for his insight then do what he says and judge the results you recive accordingly. If you can get by without the Gh then do so but if you want to use the GH then know exactly how you use it properly, meaning when to use it, how much and what to use with it.

As far as not using T-3, while dieting I really do not think it is necessary as many peole stated you will end up burning off more muscle than you would like however if using GH sometimes t-3 is necessary at loe dosages becuase we aqll know the effects moderate dosages over long peroids of time can have on the thyroid and its regulation of the metabolism. It can in some instances go right down the toliet, so be very careful and good luck to ya.



Maverick

[homonunculus]

25-50mcg will not cause muscle loss especially if you are using test,tren, winnyetc. along with it. i would never use it with out some anabolic b/c then you are gonna lose some muscle for sure.

I generally agree, but take this example:

Competitor A begins show prep taking supp's you describe above, which he's been taking for several months

He then begins dieting taking same supp.'s. After 1 mo. of dieting, he adds in 75mg T3, w/o adjusting anything else. 6 weeks later, he's lost some muscle mass that he could have otherwise kept, given how much he lost (just guessing - there is not a control group in this scenario), if he had simply dropped kcal again, and increased protein.

Again, I agree, josh - 50-75 mcg / d isn't too tough. My personal experience in dieting tells me that T3 is not needed to get very, very lean. Frankly, I believe that if one plans enough time for the diet (and cardio if that's part of the plan) to work, having a slower metabolic rate is favorable b/c it means that muscle mass is less labile and you can better ensure that wt. loss is fat loss. (I also like to vary my caloric intake weekly and over th course of several weeks - taking off weeks - so that I can maintain thyroid function and, perhaps more importantly, have a mini-rebound period where I likely regain some muscle lost during periods of fat loss. Basically its a CKD w/ periodic off weeks...)

-R