Can You Build A Wide Back Without Lat Pulldowns???

[texas ranger]

Fellas, I'm going to buy a power rack next week and would like to get some opinions. The power rack with the lat attachment I REALLY want costs way TOO much. So, I'm going to keep it basic and go with this one. http://www.newyorkbarbells.tv/92552.html These are the exercises I can do without any cables since I workout at home. Chins, Rack Chins(Doggcrapp style), One Arm Rows, T-Bar Rows(with an Olympic Bar in a corner & close grip handle), Barbell Rows, Deadlifts, and Pullovers(Nautilus Machine). Did I miss anymore?? Let me know what you think about the rack??

[Massive G]

Good question though a better one would be 'Can you build a wide back without chins?"
I do not miss pulldowns one bit and remember with the rack chins you can do them many different ways--to the front, behind the head and even reverse grip...That'd give you 3 awesome width exercises for your DC rotation

[BiggerStronger]

Good point FH. Weighted chins are an excellent excercise

[pudge]

weighted chins are an excellent movement when you COULD do them...i dont know how heavy u get when ur bulking but they're a bitch to do when ur too heavy...when ur cutting they seem so easy to do...but personally i prefer pulldowns...i feel a better stretch and a better pull....but everyones body's are different..when i do chins now (and im leaning out) i feel alot of pain in my left shoulder, weird i know (no injury)...so i just opt to lat pulldowns...

but if u could do the chins, do them....they're a great width builder.

pudge

[Massive G]

We don't do regular chins we do them in the rack feet up on a bench...Superior movement IMO and very necessary if you weigh over 300lbs

[texas ranger]

Can anyone come up with a good back routine from the exercises listed above? Just some examples... Thanks in advance!!!

[NWSaint]

Well in all gawds honesty, I haven't done pulldowns in yearrrrrs.. BUT, then again on the other hand I do med/wide grip pullups to the front religiously. I've managed to work my way up to about 10x15reps, and that's pretty much what I go with for back.. & if it's thickness, then nothing beats (for me anyways) Barbell Bent Rows, around 6x total, starting light (can't have back injuries now) with high reps and gradually increasing the weight while decreasing the reps (pyramiding if you may).. So my back workout (personally) looks like this-

Back-

WGPU- (front only) - 10x15

BR - 6X total
1x15/135
1x12/185
2x10/225
2x 6/275

This way you take care of width with the pullups and thickness with the bent rows, may seem a lil' ol' school, but hell it works and hasn't let me down yet. Hope this helps ya out.. g/l...............................lata'.





"NW"

[TooPowerful4u]

Wide back without chins hmmm. . .

Now i have nothing to brag about by a long shot, but i do have a pretty wide back with a dramatic v taper thats only gonna improve in time. i SUCK at pullups, can do maybe 8 at a bodyweight of 210. I can pull down 230lbs for 8 solid reps tho. Go figure. I personally always felt you can concentrate on form better and the contraction by using pulldowns, where when ur doin pullups ur worried about gettin ur ass up there for each rep.

I know a guy in particular at my gym, same bodyweight as me, all upper body though, and can do a TON of pullups (20-30). Back is nowhere near as wide as mine, just thicker.

[Ken Skip Hill]

I will say this:
My back has always been a week point as far as width (due primarily to gentically narrow shoulders) and I tried every chin and pulldown scheme known to man for YEARS with not much in the way of dramatic changes. About 5 years ago I switched to primarily rowing movements (4 of my 5 back exercises) and my back too off. It is still not a strong point but in relation to where it was for years, the progress has been incredible.

I have since added machine pullovers in the last couple years and have had GREAT success with these, also.

To say that chins or pull downs work on "width" and rows work on "thickness" is rediculous. I muscle doesn't grow in one direction.

Skip

[Silverback]

For expanding back width you need to stretch. After back workouts hang from a bar and hold it for 60-80 seconds like DC stated. You're ligaments will be more flexible and you will be able to spread you lats more as time goes by.

[In-Human]

I am with FH, I do weighted Rack Chins and they have done my back good, and they are tough when your bodyweight gets up there...

[GetnBigr]

I think what works for some may not work as well for others. A few years back when I weighed in at a whopping 160 lbs, I could do 37 pull ups on my first set and the of course they gradually decreased in number and my back was not wide at all. Since incorporating bent over barbell rows and deads, I have seen a much greater improvement.

Keep in mind I haven't been doing this for 20+ years and am in no way taking away from what anyone has said. My point is what works for some may not work for others, at least not as good.

[NWSaint]

Originally posted by Skip
To say that chins or pull downs work on "width" and rows work on "thickness" is rediculous. I muscle doesn't grow in one direction.

Skip

Skip:

Hmmmm, ridiculous eh ?? Ok then I guess then for the past '16' years I've been totally mislead as to the function and result that med/wide grip pullups provide, same with rowing, I guess the thickness that can be developed from bent rowing is just an oudated concept. To call a method (or for that matter a proven method) ridiculous seems a little pre-mature considering the fact that many thousand disciples of weight training/bodybuilding have been following and succeding with these exact methods for years. Every time I'm in convo. with other lifters, pickup a mag or read an article o/l that has to do with back development there are usually '3' specifics that are talked about for putting on mass and building overall development

1). Pullups/ Pulldowns

2). Bent Rows

3). Deadlifts

& I might also add in no particular order.. Now, since Texas Ranger (the author of this thread) asked

"Can anyone come up with a good back routine from the exercises listed above? Just some examples"

I decided to give up MY back routine that works, and after years of success personally and as well from training others (haven't had one individual not develop yet) I didn't see the harm, but to be openly criticized as "ridiculous", well, ok then, to each their own beliefs.. & my belief is I roll with what I know, and I roll with what always works and has NEVER let me down, bottom line

.........................................Ez!



NWSaint.

[texas ranger]

Originally posted by texas ranger
Can anyone come up with a good back routine from the exercises listed above? Just some examples... Thanks in advance!!!

Your back is lookin' nice, bro...

[texas ranger]

Ok, fellas how does this routine look?

Rack Chins(weighted)
T-Bar Rows(with an Olympic bar & close grip handle)
Nautilus Pullovers
Deadlifts
5-7 minutes of heavy stretches for the Lats

Sounds good???