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  • NEAT impact on fat loss?

    For all the coaches out there or anyone with knowledge on the matter,In your experience how much does NEAT contribute to fat loss and do you take this into consideration when creating a plan for your clients? I ask because I’ve picked up a second job at the gym I currently train at where I'm on my feet (re-racking weights, laundry, moving equipment etc) for an extra 5-6 hrs in my day where as in the past this would be spent at the house most likely sitting/relaxing. I'm wondering if these are calories that should be maybe placed back in my diet? or just use this as extra calorie burn to assist with fat loss

    **Deficit/Cardio was already in place to create a loss before I started this additional job**
    Last edited by 1MoreRep89; 02-11-2020, 03:23 PM.

  • #2
    I think NEAT is a little overrated and people want it to be more than it is. I say this as someone with a physical job who lifts 850-1000 cases of beer a day and puts them on pallets. Yes, it burns some calories, but not as much as you'd think. No one in our warehouse is shredded from this. Most are out of shape and overweight.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by FK86 View Post
      I think NEAT is a little overrated and people want it to be more than it is. I say this as someone with a physical job who lifts 850-1000 cases of beer a day and puts them on pallets. Yes, it burns some calories, but not as much as you'd think. No one in our warehouse is shredded from this. Most are out of shape and overweight.
      i do agree there, i mean once you put it into your consideration in the calorie calculation for your diet, in the beginning, i mean walking a 1000 steps extra per day is not like huge, do not get me wrong it does have an effect. now if your neat is hugely varying then you need to put that into consideration maybe apply high and low days where needed, but i agree with FK i mean you never see anyone say omg that 2000 steps yesterday are killing me or someone saying last prep my NEAT helped me so much i got extra lean on stage.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by FK86 View Post
        I think NEAT is a little overrated and people want it to be more than it is. I say this as someone with a physical job who lifts 850-1000 cases of beer a day and puts them on pallets. Yes, it burns some calories, but not as much as you'd think. No one in our warehouse is shredded from this. Most are out of shape and overweight.
        I could start a shitstorm by going one step further and saying that I think cardio is overrated for most people, as well.

        I don't disagree with your post, but I will say that I would probably put more focus on NEAT than I would on MISS or HIIT cardio. It isn't that these forms of cardio don't burn excess calories because they obviously do. My problem is, at what expense? The toll it takes on recovery and your CNS can be quite brutal.

        I used to feel that I needed to do cardio to get lean -- period. I think most people feel this way, at least in part. I'm embarrassed that it took me so long to challenge this notion because in the early 2000s and through 2012, I was known for challenging the norms, and some would have considered me a heretic. However, last year I broke down and decided to see how lean I could get while not doing even one minute of cardio, instead relying on diet and training only. I felt that it could help considerably to improve recovery while not doing cardio. I also felt that because I know nutrition so well (and my body), I would see how far I could take it. I had no deadline or show on the horizon anymore.

        I will attach the pictures to prove how well the process worked, but I went 12 weeks from start to finish and only dropped 3 or 4 pounds. I started at 223 and ended at 219. You might think that isn't terribly impressive, but you need to see the pictures to appreciate the recomp that I did during that time. And, yes, I was untrained for 3 months prior to doing this "transformation," and I got fat during that time, as well. This still does not negate, in any way, how effective my protocol was (without cardio) for the 12 weeks.

        And this brings me back to my point about NEAT.

        NEAT has no real negative impact on recovery or your CNS unless that activity is very intense. Plus, people like yourself who work your ass off all day while on your feet, at some point, do become quite a bit accustomed to that level of NEAT. I believe that if someone like myself -- who doesn't move much during the day, at all -- were to increase NEAT and do no cardio, that this would be quite effective for getting leaner.

        Cardio and NEAT are relative to that person's current activity levels. I always ask new clients what their job is and how active they are because someone who is on their feet for 12-hour shifts as an ER nurse is going to respond quite differently to 30-minute cardio sessions than someone like myself who sits on his ass all day and rarely moves. My idea of cardio is going to the grocery store or the post office. Obviously, a 30-minute cardio session would have a much more pronounced impact on me than someone who is constantly moving all day at work.

        The bottom line is, you and most of the people working with you have adjusted to that level of activity. It is no different than if someone does a lot of cardio for months; eventually, it becomes far less productive.

        The progression of my 12-week progress is attached.

        Skip
        Attached Files


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post

          I could start a shitstorm by going one step further and saying that I think cardio is overrated for most people, as well.

          I don't disagree with your post, but I will say that I would probably put more focus on NEAT than I would on MISS or HIIT cardio. It isn't that these forms of cardio don't burn excess calories because they obviously do. My problem is, at what expense? The toll it takes on recovery and your CNS can be quite brutal.

          I used to feel that I needed to do cardio to get lean -- period. I think most people feel this way, at least in part. I'm embarrassed that it took me so long to challenge this notion because in the early 2000s and through 2012, I was known for challenging the norms, and some would have considered me a heretic. However, last year I broke down and decided to see how lean I could get while not doing even one minute of cardio, instead relying on diet and training only. I felt that it could help considerably to improve recovery while not doing cardio. I also felt that because I know nutrition so well (and my body), I would see how far I could take it. I had no deadline or show on the horizon anymore.

          I will attach the pictures to prove how well the process worked, but I went 12 weeks from start to finish and only dropped 3 or 4 pounds. I started at 223 and ended at 219. You might think that isn't terribly impressive, but you need to see the pictures to appreciate the recomp that I did during that time. And, yes, I was untrained for 3 months prior to doing this "transformation," and I got fat during that time, as well. This still does not negate, in any way, how effective my protocol was (without cardio) for the 12 weeks.

          And this brings me back to my point about NEAT.

          NEAT has no real negative impact on recovery or your CNS unless that activity is very intense. Plus, people like yourself who work your ass off all day while on your feet, at some point, do become quite a bit accustomed to that level of NEAT. I believe that if someone like myself -- who doesn't move much during the day, at all -- were to increase NEAT and do no cardio, that this would be quite effective for getting leaner.

          Cardio and NEAT are relative to that person's current activity levels. I always ask new clients what their job is and how active they are because someone who is on their feet for 12-hour shifts as an ER nurse is going to respond quite differently to 30-minute cardio sessions than someone like myself who sits on his ass all day and rarely moves. My idea of cardio is going to the grocery store or the post office. Obviously, a 30-minute cardio session would have a much more pronounced impact on me than someone who is constantly moving all day at work.

          The bottom line is, you and most of the people working with you have adjusted to that level of activity. It is no different than if someone does a lot of cardio for months; eventually, it becomes far less productive.

          The progression of my 12-week progress is attached.

          Skip
          amazing write-up, hire skip at teamskip.com

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          • #6
            Awesome transformation in such a short time Skip!

            In my own experience I have always seemed to feel and look a bit better by doing cardio and keeping my calories a bit higher. Typically when I diet I start by cutting excess calories back until I get to a point where I don't really want to cut them any more at the time and then add in LISS cardio. I have no doubt I could continue to drop fat by reducing calories the same approx. 200 calories a day I burn doing cardio. Do you think this feeling and look I am referring to are just psychological or do you believe there is a benefit once calories get to a certain point to add in the cardio over dropping the calories further? This may be one of those things that is highly individual but the style of cardio I do seems to have no negative impact on my recovery. I work a desk job all day so much like you I get very little activity through the day.
            6/22/13 - 2013 NPC VICTORY CLASSIC
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            • #7
              I can't say if it was psychological or not, to be honest. I CAN say that everyone is different and that is why I laugh sometimes when people and trainers throw out these very black and white "rules" like you can't get shredded without cardio or you can't get shredded if you Skipload, blah, blah, blah. Everyone is different so if your cardio is not causing you any concerns with recovery and you prefer higher calories and higher caloric output, I will give you zero shit for your approach.

              Cardio for ME, ends up destroying me. This is why I have been discussing NEAT more than focusing on more cardio -- not just for me but with my clients. Some people can go a long way with little to no cardio while others just HAVE to have it. My issue is when people assume they need it but don't really know if they need it. They are only doing it because too many gurus on the internet told them they need it.

              And I want to reiterate that even after doing what I do for as many years as I have, I was shocked at how lean I was able to get and how much muscle I retained while not doing any cardio. I was certainly of the thinking that 99 out of 100 people need to do cardio to get really lean. My mind has changed on that only since my experiment. Again, though, I am not implying that everyone can get shredded with no cardio. I'm just saying that I think it is highly overrated. I believe John Meadows has similar thoughts on cardio, if I am not mistaken.

              Skip



              Originally posted by LKQSJH View Post
              Awesome transformation in such a short time Skip!

              In my own experience I have always seemed to feel and look a bit better by doing cardio and keeping my calories a bit higher. Typically when I diet I start by cutting excess calories back until I get to a point where I don't really want to cut them any more at the time and then add in LISS cardio. I have no doubt I could continue to drop fat by reducing calories the same approx. 200 calories a day I burn doing cardio. Do you think this feeling and look I am referring to are just psychological or do you believe there is a benefit once calories get to a certain point to add in the cardio over dropping the calories further? This may be one of those things that is highly individual but the style of cardio I do seems to have no negative impact on my recovery. I work a desk job all day so much like you I get very little activity through the day.


              Facebook: Skip Hill
              Instagram: @intensemuscle
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              For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

              Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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              • #8
                Ive prepped several people into really good stage shape using only "steps" as a means for cardio. I definitely do not use that method with everyone but it can work really well. Obviously there are ton of people that have gotten in good shape without counting their steps for years. NEAT levels can and usually do make a drastic difference in the outcome though whether the peraon realizes it or not.

                It's really common for neet levels to drop drastically as people get tired so obviously that's going to have a pretty big impact on expenditure.

                Plus cardio adaption occurs so we are burning less calories as the body becomes more efficient anyhow. That 30 minutes of cardio you were doing on the treadmill at the start when you were out of shape isn't burning the same amount now most likely.

                There are a lot of small things to consider with this topic but NEAT levels are definitely important.

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                • #9
                  I think it also matters how you managed the offseason.

                  I'm a slow learner (our house had lead paint that I used to snack on) but now realize how important it is to get your offseason caloric intake as high as possible based on your own level of comfort, how you're partitioning nutrients, etc. to set the stage for the most effective cut possible.

                  If a competitor is able to build up their maintenance intake to say 5,000 calories, they're going to have more room to lose fat from nutrition manipulation alone than someone who is maintaining at 2,500 (holding all else constant).

                  So when you're deep in the offseason and glaring at rice with a hatred usually reserved for people who curl in the squat rack, don't think of it as force-feeding, think of it as avoiding future cardio.

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                  • #10
                    I prepped for a show using no traditional cardio. Instead I counted steps. This was by far the best shape I have been for a show. I do believe the lack of intense cardio made recovery easier and allowed me to maintain a high level of intensity.

                    Although cardio can be beneficial in creating a larger caloric deficit it also can impact how hard you train. This isn't to say the answer is foregoing cardio, but if cardio impacts your training, a couple things can happen. You may break down muscle and not be able to repair it. The lowered intensity also can lower the amount of calories training itself will burn. And oftentimes doing too much cardio often results in the trainee backing off on activity outside the gym aka lowered NEAT.

                    So, in my opinion NEAT is your baseline. Keep this baseline while manipulating the other variables while also keeping an eye on recovery.
                    1994 Ohio Gran Prix 4th place
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ucsumma View Post

                      I'm a slow learner (our house had lead paint that I used to snack on) but now realize how important it is to get your offseason caloric intake as high as possible based on your own level of comfort, how you're partitioning nutrients, etc. to set the stage for the most effective cut possible.
                      Lead paint with asbestos sprinkles on top and then wash it down with water from a garden hose.

                      Skip


                      Facebook: Skip Hill
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                      For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                      Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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