Lumps

[aka Puffy]

Just need a little advice, Started Taking some home Brew Enanthate. I know the compoundist, its about 350mg per ml. Problem It is very thick and hurts really bad. Right now took one cc in the glute on Sunday, It bruised really bad, and now I have a Hard Lump no bruise. It is a little warm to the touch but no bad. I feel fine is there anything I can do to make it less painful, Should I be wooried about a infection? I been taking for 6 weeks It works great, this is the first time I got a lump though. Just been dealing with the pain! took 2.5 cc in the shoulder first week and felt like someone put a grapefruit in my arm. :2guns:

[winnie]

I believe it is common if you hit the same spot numerous times in a short time period you will get lump. How long ago did you do this shot in the glute that you're concerned about?

[IM^]

Do wait up a second there please. Enanthate should not be
(a) causing those kind of lumps unless you have an allergic reaction to the ester
(b) causing bruising of ANY kind
(c) thick or syrupy in ANY way
(d) should not hurt as badly as you are making it out to be even at 350mg/ml
I do think that batch was not made very well, even if you do know the "chemist" that put it together. If you have been using it for 6 weeks, infection is not an issue - well unless you dropped the pin in the garbage by mistake before you used it...

[aka Puffy]

re: Lumps

It has been 5 days since I took the shot, when I took the shot it bled really bad, it bruised initailly then went away. Today I was massging the area really hard, and the bruise came back, it is still hard and tender. I am not running a fever at all, and I feel fine. ? Should I take some antibiotics just to be safe? Any advise I would appreciate. IM^ ... the pain is not new, this shit works fucking great? Any one remember the T400 stuff, it hurts like that gear did.

[SweatMachine]

Test E can be thick if Peanut oil was used, and it can hurt and swell if the BA contnet is a litle too high... I suggest cutting it down with some sterile sesame oil from Kaotic Chemistry.... Ive seen test E that caused the same reaction and after cut down to 250mg/ml with sesame oil it was fine. If you dont want to cut it with oil, try mixing it with another product ( test Cyp , deca, what ever) 50/50 inthe syringe.
I think that hot spot or knot is from the BA though--its common with high mg/ml stuff like the T400 you mentioned. 350mg Test E is kinda high mg/ml .. Just my opinion and only a suggestion, good luck....

[aka Puffy]

Re: Lumps

Sweet machine
Thanks bro, I am goingto cut it first and if they don't work I will
try the sesame oil route! :showoff:

[Yanks]

I was taking 500 mgs. of test enan. per wk. Could not walk after the quad injections. I still have 2 bottles of it. I'll try the sesame oil route. Thanks.

[IM^]

OK, let me try to explain this in a better way. I am sometimes guilty of not explaining things down to the nitty gritty basics; I make the mistake of assuming the audience knows certain things I take foregranted. This one also goes out to SM who I am sure was well intentioned in his explanation albeit slightly misguided; feel free to disagree and argue with me and I will explain myself even further if necessary.

So let me reiterate all the points I made above. Test enanthate injectable should not be:

(a) causing those kind of lumps unless you have an allergic reaction to the ester
(b) causing bruising of ANY kind
(c) thick or syrupy in ANY way
(d) should not hurt as badly as you are making it out to be even at 350mg/ml

Lumps are often indicative of a local allergic reaction to the ester in the shot, which cause an inflammation of the immediate tissue surrounding the oil, said inflammation manifesting as a lump that can be felt immediately within the muscle under the skin at the injection site. Reaction to esters is an individual phenomenon – different people will have different reactions to different esters. Thus, a lump would be (in most cases, not all) indicative of some local reaction to the type of ester used. Generally, reactions will be a known phenomenon to a user after a period of time; if you hurt like hell when you take cyp but not at all when you take enanthate, then it’s a safe bet that you are allergic to cyp (always assuming that the stuff you are getting is top notch, and not made by Jack the Wonder Boy at Kitchen Labs Inc and sold and SnakeOilBargains – don’t laugh, I have seen some of the best fooled by a setup such as this).


Bruising after a shot worries me. A bruise at an injection site can be attributable to several factors. First, and most simple, the needle may have struck a vein, the resulting blood escaping from the puncture of course clotting around the area and showing up as a bruise. This will not automatically mean that the shot has been injected into the vein; the vessel may have been slightly hit at the sides or punctured straight through. This will mean that aspiration (hopefully performed every time by our intrepid evildoer) does not immediately give any indication of the incident; as the blood will not have had time to reach mouth of the needle through the tissue if it is even a few millimeters down from the vessel.

Bruising could also be a result of bad injection procedure – people with a fear of injections or someone of more generously built and rotund stature may develop acute Parkinsons at the time of administration of the shot. This will result in a jiggling of the needle while it is still inserted into the muscle, this obviously causing muscle fiber damage and concurrent capillary rupture. The result is an obvious bruise that manifests hours later, along with the accompanying pain that makes for what is the classic “bad” shot. This is perhaps the scenario that best illustrates the joys of having your own personal, professionally-trained, 20 year old buxom female nurse at your beck and call.

Thirdly, and understandably, most serious of all, painful bruising could also be an indication of a high level of benzyl alcohol (BA), this very solvent being one of my personal bugbears since time immemorial for a number of reasons. BA, when used as a preservative in injections (in concentrations of up to 2% of total solution) very rarely causes any problems; however, when used as a solvent (concentrations of 5% or more), BA starts to show the nature of the beast it truly is. Hypersensitivity reactions to BA can include (but not necessarily be limited to) inflammation at the injection site, fever, vertigo, nausea, headaches, and vomiting – can anyone here relate? Indeed, such a thing is worryingly very common - due to the high proliferation of several nickel and dime “chemists” out there, “injectables” (I use the word sarcastically here in connection with preparations made by these jokers) with a high concentration of BA abound in copious amounts. Preparations that contain high amounts of this solvent INSTANTLY MEAN –without any shadow of doubt whatsoever – (a) low grade items, in addition to (b) dangerous idiots masquerading as “chemists” whose knowledge of actual chemistry is probably on the same level as your garden variety, 10 year old chemistry geek. I say this with no reservations whatsoever – high BA items are instant crap, regardless of whom you hear singing their praises. I have seen far too many fallacies being promoted on boards about this thing; it’s time to get the hell up and make a stand. The chemistry of formulation of injectable steroids is a well known field and has been so for the last few decades – the ONLY reason why preparations would contain a high amount of BA is to hide some serious shortcomings in either the chemicals used in the formulation, the method used in the preparation, or both. Professionally made items ONLY use BA as a preservative and not as a solvent. If anyone out there is using high BA items; you are merely playing Russian roulette with your ass - literally. (I will only mention this in passing because it was mentioned already – ever wondered why that T400 hurt so much? There ARE ways of making high mg preparations WITHOUT needed an ocean of BA; obviously Jack the Wonder Boy wouldn’t know that and if he did, he would not be bothered to make something better; why invest extra time and money in making a better preparation when there are a thousand idiots slobbering over your bottled donkey urine?)

Ooopss…sorry, getting carried away there…let’s proceed.


Thick/syrupy injectables are another worrying sign of low grade manufacture. Such items are one of the main reasons why steroids are given a bad name. Allow me to correct you here SM: injectables will not be denser if peanut oil is used – they will be denser if ANY low grade oil is used as a vehicle. It is a common fallacy to blame peanut oil as being the culprit in the thicker injectables – namely because low-grade peanut oil can be easily purchased by Jack the Wonder Boy in several hundred gallon amounts off the back of a truck and is thereby one of the commoner oils used in your basement lab preparations. In reality, any low grade oil will result in a thicker preparation. Arachis oil is one of the most commonly used vehicles for professionally made injectables because it can be purified to a very high grade (in accordance to the standards set forth in the United States Pharmacopeia for oil vehicles used in injectables); however, this is more expensive to buy and somewhat harder for Jack the Wonder Boy to get. Thus again, the old, tried and trusted adage of your average two cent source comes into play – why bother going to the trouble of making good stuff when you have so many idiots foaming at the mouth for your dangerous crap? (If anyone here is offended by my labeling certain people idiots, I make no apologies – if you are so naïve as to engage in certain things without doing your homework properly, then something is definitely wrong with you.)

Thus, please, don’t blame the oil, blame the grade – and the cheap lowlife who put it out on the market for a quick buck. (Again, I reiterate: a lowlife like this only exists because he finds buyers for his garbage, so who is really to blame?)

Allow me to also comment on what SM said about cutting the injectable preparation with another oil. The method obviously works – you are diluting your product to the point where you alter both the density and the concentration of the initial item to the point where you can inject it more easily and with relatively less pain. I have no problems with the reasoning behind the chemistry of this method; what I do have a problem with is the semantics of such a procedure. Let me explain. If you have an item that is using a cheap oil to start with, that will instantly cast a doubt over the quality of the product in its entirety. If someone used a cheap oil, the odds are he is mixing cheap chemicals. Would YOU buy high grade chemicals and drown them in your average McDonald’s cooking grease? I truly doubt it –I wouldn’t do that for sure. Thus, the problem is this, diluting works but…aren’t you merely diluting bad crap anyway? Whichever way you look at it, a bad item is a bad item; even if you dilute it to the point of easier injection and less pain, you are still using a bad item. A mistake is never rectified with another.


Pain at the injection site due to high concentrations of active ingredient (and please note that I am assuming here that all the other causes of injection pain have been nullified; I am only talking about the pain resulting directly from high concentrations here) can be a legitimate complaint, high concentrations per mg will elicit an allergic reaction even with items that do not usually produce this reaction at lower dosages. However, with a professionally made injectable intended for human use, this is generally (again not always, nothing is definite in medical diagnosis or prognosis) transient and clears up quickly as the oil of the injection dissipates (this highlights one of the reasons why a high grade oil is always recommended; the lower density of the oil aids rapid dissipation of the injection and thus the active ingredient). Furthermore, repeated injection of such an item (providing there are no direct allergies to the ester) will over a period of time reduce the sensitivity of the muscle to the elevated concentration and the pain of injection due to this complain will invariably dissipate and be less of a problem. Constant pain, injection after injection, week after week, will definitely point to other reasons for the problem.

[IM^]

And thus, I hope, I have shed some light on some common misconceptions. I know SM knows me well by now; you have grown used enough to my style of writing to know that this was no direct attack on your line of reasoning or of you as a person – you are a great fountain of knowledge but I really wanted to pinpoint some common tribulations that even the best of us have with the bodybuilding situation today.

Hopefully, I have touched on all salient points. Questions/disagreements anyone?

[GetnBigr]

my eyes hurt.......j/k

good information there IM^

[IM^]

Randy been paying you to pick on me eh GetnBigr???

[homonunculus]

Originally posted by IM^

Hopefully, I have touched on all salient points. Questions/disagreements anyone?

You obviously have NO idea what you're talking about!!!

JUST KIDDING!!!! (Had ya there for millisecond, eh?.... LOL)

Thanks, IM^, for that. Very, very informative. We might split this into another thread and make it a sticky, depending on how far it goes.

Would you recommend Arachis oil for home chemists, or is there another oil that is more easily attainable?...

Do you use 2% BA as a preservative?... Perhaps something else?... What do you prefer as a solvent?...

How would you sterilize a 350mg/ml TE batch?... Feel free to add in details of your procedure, if they are pertinent.

-Randy

[Anadrol]

NICE!

[stormshadow]

Bro your enanthate is bunk or contaminated. There have been quality issues with enanthate coming from china. There are only a few big manufacturers making the powder. Although there are many guys selling it, it all basically comes from the same place.

I made up my enanthate and had the same problems. I switched to cyp and it was much better, but still happened once and awhile. Best thing I did was have my buddy do it in the lab. First thing he does is sterilize the raw powder using a centrifuge. Adding BA and running the final mix through a syringe filter is not sterilizing it. I have not had a single problem since he starting making my gear. When he sterilizes the powder he filters out the extra crap that is not hormone. This cannot be done using standard bootleg practices.

[IM^]

Originally posted by homonunculus
You obviously have NO idea what you're talking about!!!

JUST KIDDING!!!! (Had ya there for millisecond, eh?.... LOL)

BIFF!!

Would you recommend Arachis oil for home chemists, or is there another oil that is more easily attainable?...

Do you use 2% BA as a preservative?... Perhaps something else?... What do you prefer as a solvent?...

How would you sterilize a 350mg/ml TE batch?... Feel free to add in details of your procedure, if they are pertinent.

-Randy

Actually, if I had to be honest, I discourage the whole idea behind home chemistry. This concept has every Tom, Dick and Harry who can buy a 2c test tube thinking he is the new Linus Pauling, and it has brought nothing but trouble, as well as more flak to the sport plus the unwanted extra attention by the Govt. You cannot emulate a professional setup in your home and, while you will have some people that do things fairly correctly with the equipment they can access, resulting in a fairly acceptable pharmaceutical level of home made injectable, the odds are that most are going to screw up at some point or other. This is something that worries me because it can only make the sport look worse than it already is, and do we really need more aggravation?

However, just for the sake of information: yes I would recommend arachis oil BP or USP grade as a first choice (if it's good enough for Organon, it's good enough for me), BA should only be used as a preservative and NOT as a solvent and I could write a paper on the sterlization of injectables, but it would be out of place here. For example, dry heat sterilization is used for oily injections, moist heat sterilization (autoclaving) is used for most thermostable aqueous preparations, heating with a bactericide may be used for injections that are thermolabile to autoclaving, while sterilization by filtration may be used as an alternative to dry heat for oils and may avoid slight changes in heat sterilized products. Of course, most of these methods are well beyond the reach of even a well equipped home chemist, and, (it's only my opinion of course) any other procedure would be second best, making the product liable to contamination.

And then, I will always have this damned bugbear with people just buying powders from just anywhere - how on earth can they guarantee that they are getting USP/BP grade stuff without an HPLC was something I have never understood. I am severely irked when someone says Preparation X is good because Johnny Johnson said it rocked. Since when does Johnny have $300K worth of analyzer built into his Johnson?

Incidentally, if I may point something out Stormshadow, I doubt your friend sterilizes any powder with a centrifuge. Perhaps you mean autoclave? Even so, unless he utilizes a completely aseptic technique in a lab that is fully equipped to process injectables, there is little point in sterilizing the raw powder. It can be done of course, but it would involve a professional lab setup knowing the exact techniques of injectable preparation, and some quiet after hours work - using the method you are making me think of is not something you can do behind a piece of paper while the boss is not looking.