diet question......

[Tyson23]

I just wanted to get peoples opinions on doing timed carb diets like just having carbs around your workouts pre post and an hour after post compared to having a diet that is low in carbs where you eat carbs every day. I am currently doing timed carbs on training days and non training days im doing just protein fats meals all day. and 2 days a week i do refeeds not going over 200-250grams of carbs. Im wondering if this approach is something you do towards the end when your getting towards those sticky points when your tryign to dial in at a lower % or is it a good approach to use from the get go.

[homonunculus]

Tyson,

I have found when coming off a bulking diet, I can eat according to appetite, making sure I take in enough protein and still lose fat at a high rate for a week or two.

After that, I gradually reduce carb intake on non-training days (as well as kcal) to the point that I am doing carb re-feeds on training days only, if then. Depending on my training schedule, I might do 3 carb days during the week, with 4 no-carb days. I have tried many different approaches, but all share the need to carb-up between workouts for a given muscle group.

As I'm getting toward lower single digit BF%, I may end up dropping to 1-2 carb meals on training days only, but, again, this depends on my training schedule.

So, to answer your question from my perspective, I have found that there is not a need to do a strict cyclical ketogenic diet when starting to lose fat. The CKD (actually a TKD) only comes later. This works, though, b/c when I bulk, I am eating 6000kcal / day, so dropping to 4000 kcal / day is a big jump.

-Randy

[Tyson23]

thanks for the quick response, So from what your saying the approach im taking is more of something you would do towards the end when yoru really trying to get those last few bodyfat %'s off? And at my current state of being 16-18% i dont need to go straight at that cuz it doesnt really leave me any room to adjust if i go for the timed carb diet from the get go.? Dam this stuff can get very confusing lol this is what im doing exactly right now

non-training days. 350 protien, 120-130fat.
training days 350 protein 150 carbs ( all around the workout) 90
re-feeds 350protien 200-250g carbs 70fat


p.s. if everything is done correctly is can you honestly keep most of your muscle when dieting being totally natural? if so at what rate so i dont have my expectations to high of keeping everythingi have

[Tyson23]

gonna bump my own thread .... homonunculus hit me back or anyone else that cares to chime in

[homonunculus]

Tyson,

From your last thread, it sounds like what you're doing is working. I wouldn't change it.

My circumstances are different when I start cutting. For several years now, I am either bulking or cutting, with basically nothing in between (except for weeks where I take a break, so that I can continue one or the other - these are planned however). When I bulk, I take in 6000kcal / day (minimum). Even so, my weight only climbs slowly, even though this is far beyond what would be required by a normal metabolism and given my activity level. My weight doesn't increase very quickly b/c my metabolism has increased to burn off excess kcal, holding my body closer to its setpoint(s).

On the other hand, I can lose 20lb in a couple weeks, if I just eat according to my appetite.

So, when I stop bulking, I NEED to consume carbs in my diet:
-For the kcal. If I didn't, I would be eating at least 250g of fat a day, which would give me worse diarrhea than I already have.
-For the anabolism of carbs and the associated insulin release. If I dropped to zero carbs so quickly, the sudden change in hormonal and macronutrient milieu would lead to rapid muscle loss.

FOR ME, there is NO NEED to go to a TKD at the start of MY diet and it would be counterproductive. This may not be the case for you.

There is no problem in going right to a TKD it seems in your case. you strength is not dropping (in fact it seems to be going up), and you're getting leaner.

As far as setting yourself up for stalling in the future, that can be easily taken care of with:
-Periodically taking a week or so off the diet, increaseing carbs
-Dropping kcal to ensure a caloric deficit and continued fat loss.

As a natty, I def. think you can hold on to all of your muscle when dieting. HOWEVER, being able to do this may take several years of tinkering with your diet to find what works for you. A TKD may be your ticket. You, like me, will likely have to modify your approach to suit your needs.

The bigger you get, the harder it may be, but the more you'll know about what your body can handle.

Keep up the good work, Tyson. You're kickin' ass.

-Randy

[Tyson23]

thanks man i really appreciate you posting in my threads always have very detailed answers One of the reasons im questioning my diet is becuase i feel in the last month and half i havent lost any body weight which i know the scale is useless like we went over but my waist isnt getting smaller and bodyfat loss seems to have stalled a bit. I honeslty feel like im getting bigger muscle wise which is weird cuz ive never eatin this few calories before go figure im eating less then ever lolol. But i do have to be honest and say i havent done cardio more then 3times in a week since i started dieting lol I get very un motivated could this be the main problem. sorry for sloppy response at my gf';s and wrote this fast lol

[homonunculus]

Tyson,

Any pics? It sound like you're havin' a hard time being "objective" about how your body composition is changing... (Go figure, right?!?!?)

-R

[Tyson23]

well the pics that youve seen already in my other thread are up on the board and i am maybe a tad bit leaner then that but have had a stand still for some time but i could be being impatient i just figure 4-5weeks of not much of a change is just something that has raised a questoin on what im doing. But i will take some pics in maybe another 2-3weeks so then maybe you can see if you can tell a difference. My waist just hasnt been goin in and i have a slight outline to my abs very slight but i dont know im just rambling on lolol let me know what you think lol

[homonunculus]

Tyson,

OK, You're taking in about 2800-2900 kcal / day. This is 13kcal / lb or so, and apparently too high for you.

Drop it by 300-400 kcal / day and you should get back on track. I would do this by dropping fat, primarily by reducing sat. fats in meats, not EFA's in oils, nuts, etc. Basically, eat leaner cuts of meat.

Carbs and protein should stay the same - just reduce fat grams / day by 40g/day. Give this a try for 2-3 weeks (minimum). I think you'll see a difference.

-R

[hryder112]

ill have to agree with homonunculus that coming off a bulking diet i can keep my carbs relatively up, my protein high and my fat pretty low and i drop weight easily right off, then i'll start cutting the carbs out , beginning my wrapping them around my training and ending up where i only take them in post workout which is the stage im currently at.