what do you think?

[chaos]

im getting rerady to start my cycle , hopeing it will help ease my elbow pain.. im planning on running q.v. eq 300 mg for 14 weeks, tren e.d for weeks 3-10,and cyp 500mg weeks 1-14 . what do you think? starting out 256 ,32years old, 16-18% b.f,535 comp raw bench,hopeing to cut down to 10-13% and hold on to majority of strength

[winnie]

cycle looks good, but I would use deca intstead of the EQ if you are having joint pain in your elbow

personally i like 600mg's of cyp EW
with 500mg's of deca EW

[winnie]

you probably don't want to run deca and tren together

[chaos]

i whent with the eq be cause of a post i read on another board .... here it is.....
originally posted by AnimalMass on competitivemuscle.com

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

AnimalMass

[chaos]

lol plus i already have a couple bottles of the eq.......im also t going to be taking 3 i.u.s of hgh daily

[chaos]

and why not run tren also? i wanted to run winst but dont have any right now

[mikhal]

Bro, Tren and EQ are like Peanut butter& Jelly. A match made in heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chaos]

thats what i thought 2 mikhal, but if someone with more exp has a valid reason to switch im all ears

[winnie]

The only reason I was stating that I would hold off on the tren is because I was referencing using the deca instead of the EQ, and i would personally not run the risk of deca and tren induced gyno.

[chaos]

ok ,yeah i understand when dealing with deca and tren ,but i think im going to go with the eq now

[Bdiggler]

Do it Do it!

:showoff: Hey man as the great chaos said (Do IT.Do IT) See Ya at the gym tonight. Bdiggler:showoff:

[mikhal]

I do agree that there is a risk of running EQ and Decca and Tren together. I would therefore consider what it is that you want to get outta this deal. If it's strength and size with ease on the joints Decca is the way to go. However if you want to be shredded and strong with QUALITY muscle gains that will be easy to keep and a very impressive look to them, Please allow me to humblely suggest trying this combo , EQ/TREN/WINNIE. I've found that you CAN gain size if you take a higher intake of clean calories on this cycle also. I'm stating this based on my own personal experience. If Winnie is not availible perhaps you can get up on some anavar which will work kinda along the same lines also it's not quite as hard on the liver. I wish you the best whatever your decsion may be. Good luck and Good health my brotha. PEACE:bat:

[chaos]

where would i insert the winnie? before tren ? after ? or do them simultaneously? and as for diet im running a ckd dietwith a carb load on weekends, goal to lose some bf and maintain my strength as much as pos, (im into powerlifting). and i also try to keep my max bench at least 2 times what Bdigglers doin......j/k bro

[jaywooly]

You can do them both at the same time, in the same syringe. That is, if you ARE going to run your tren ED.

[chaos]

i was planning on a 14 week cycle where would you suggest i add the tren winn?