Spilling over?

[TooPowerful4u]

Start by saying im not worried about this for me at all, with the guidence i have. I just figured it would be a good tidbit of info for me to have in my head, and i want the RIGHT info.

What exactly is it and how does it happen. Im pretty sure i know, just not extensivly, and not sure if im 100% right. Id like to know more about it. Thanx

[JonnyO]

Its what happens when carbing up and you lose your muscular definition via SubQ water by overdoing it.

[TooPowerful4u]

I know that. I was lookin for more complexities to it. How can it be caused? Messing up your water by cutting it too early or too late? Undercarbing? Overcarbing?

[homonunculus]

Too much sodium, the primary extracellular electrolyte, can cause this. It will distribute itself in the extracellular fluid, which includes the interstitial space(s) under the skin, drawing water to that area by osmosis.

Overcarbing: Insulin increases vascular permeability, which, d/t the hydrostatic pressure in the blood, tends to push fluid out of the capillaries and under the skin. When you carb up (and have lots of insulin around), blood glucose normally would move from the blood --> interstitium --> muscle cell (other cells, too) --> glycogen storage w/in the muscle cell.

When you over carb (and have lots of insulin around), you have either exceeded the maximal rate of glycogen storage and glucose gets backed up in the interstitial spaces under the skin, which draws in fluid d/t osmosis, or the cells are already full of glycogen and the same happens. The insulin speeds this up b/c it makes the vascular endothelium more permeable to glucose. Too many carbs or taking them in to fast can have the same effect.

The spilling over effect (as I understand it) refers specifically (at least most of the time) to the situation when you're dry, vascular, hard and you start to smooth out d/t overcarbing. When you carb up, sodium is a good idea b/c its co-transported with glucose (in the gut and at the muscle cell membrane), but too much can get ya, too (see above).

You can also spill over from posing too much when you're doing a last minute pump up to go on stage. This is d/t the pressure exerted by the contractions, which literally squeezes water out of the vasculature and into the intertitium. It is drawn and held there osmotically by the accumulation of metabolites created by the contraction (lactate, ammonia, potassium, etc.)

The shitload works so well (and is so fool proof) b/c if you've dried out, carb depleted properly AND DON'T DRINK WATER / MINIMIZE FLUID INTAKE, fluid already in the body that would / could be held under the skin is instead carried into the muscle cell when glycogen is stored (at least for the first 24 hrs or so). This means you can get drier!!! The sodium in a shitload will keep you vascular, too b/c it will keep water in the vasculature (which occupies a greater volume, too b/c of the vasodilatory effect of insulin). When the muscle cells are loading with glycogen (taking up glucose) they draw sodium from the surrounding interstitium for co-transport, and b/c the muscle cell is swelling, much of this sodium will stay inside the cell to balance electrolyte concentrations. This also prevents spilling over (at least for a while).

Hope this helps!!!

-Randy

[Kidrok (Hop)]

it's a beautiful thing randy!

[IM^]

Say, at least we got Randy to fill in for me while Skip is torturing me in his basement... :p

[homonunculus]

Thanks, Guys.

And IM^, Skip says you like it... LOL (You sick bastard!)

-R

[IM^]

You still believe what Skip says? Interesting. Hmm...hey Randy, I got this little bridge in Brooklyn....

[JonnyO]

good answer homonuculus! WOW

[SweatMachine]

Randy -

Cant low levels of aldosterone, from low sodium, also cause water retention, due to the bodys homeostasis processees? cant Too little water cause the body to try retaining water by also lowering aldosterone levels.?...
am I correct or NOT?

[homonunculus]

Originally posted by IM^
You still believe what Skip says? Interesting. Hmm...hey Randy, I got this little bridge in Brooklyn....

Skip said you'd say that... LOL

Originally posted by SweatMachine
Randy -

Cant low levels of aldosterone, from low sodium, also cause water retention, due to the bodys homeostasis processees? cant Too little water cause the body to try retaining water by also lowering aldosterone levels.?...
am I correct or NOT?

You are correct, Sir! Well, kinda.

Yes, hyponatremia (low blood sodium) is a simulus for aldosterone release, which generallyh promotes water retention by causing sodium retention. (1st question.) However, this would not necessarily occur when there body water is low. (2nd question.) Dehydration (low body water) is generally accompanied by and sensed by the body as high sodium levels (i.e., there is not enough extracellular fluid and the sodium is more concentrated).

The action of aldosterone is to promote sodium reaborption in the kidneys. It is released from the adrenal gland and does this when there is low sodium, when blood volume is low (renin-angiotensin system), when venous return is low (atrial natriuretic factor release from the heart is less, meaning less in hibition by ANF for Adosterone release) and when you're under stress, ACTH can cause aldosterone release and water retention.

So, if you do take in too little water, you will have high sodium levels in the blood and low aldosterone. (Unless you've just run a marathon in the heat - another situitation.) When you DO start taking in water, you will start holding on to it (retaining water) b/c the sodium will have an osmotic effect. ("Water follows salt.")

I tell women who hold water during their periods to drink more water. This DOES dilute out sodium, which alone triggers aldosterone release, but all the water keeps blood volume high, thereby inhibiting aldosterone release d/t the renin-angiotensin system and ANF release. High blood volume also inhibits anti-diuretic hormone (ADH), which facilitated diuresis, as does the ANF.

The high water intake and low sodium in this case means that it does not "settle" in the interstitium and draw water there, b/c the kidneys are constantly processing water (you're peeing a lot).

So basically:

dehydration = high [sodium] = low adosterone, but water retention if you get some, at least until sodium levels are normalized.

hyperhydration = low [sodium] = high aldosterone, but diuresis d/t other factors until normal sodium levels are reached.

These complications, I think, are what make using pharm. diuretics so tough. Add drying out w/ pharm diuretics on top of trying to carb up (see above) and its like trying to chew gum, juggle flaming chainsaws, tie your shoes, pat your head, rub your belly and whistle dixie all at the same time.

Thats why I like to do it my way - simple... ;^)

We need a little smiley of some guy opening a can of worms... LOL

-Randy

[SweatMachine]

So, I was basically correct then ,wasnt I?

Randy you use your tongue (or key board) better than 2 dollar whore! that was a beautiful expalination.

[homonunculus]

Originally posted by SweatMachine
So, I was basically correct then ,wasnt I?

Randy you use your tongue (or key board) better than 2 dollar whore! that was a beautiful expalination.

Sweaty, you're always right, my man. LOL.

Now if I could just find a way to use my tougue one-tenth as often as I bang away on this keyboard, I'd be a very happy guy...

-R