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  • Political Post: Curious your thoughts

    I thought the last thread was a good exchange and so I am breaking the rules again with this post. I found the read pretty interesting and wanted to throw it out to you guys for your thoughts. It is long but it is a very good read:

    http://nymag.com/print/?/news/politi...-frum-2011-11/

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  • #2
    Jeez, where to start. I'll just say that I have always voted republican. When I grew up we we on welfare, food stamps and pretty much nay kind of aide you can think of. As I grew up, my political views were always aligned with the republicans...for the most part.
    After serving in the Air Force for 20+ years and working with hundreds on different people who also had the same political views, I wondered WTF does the other side really see? I still don't see what they see and likely never will. I'm for people earning their way. Some gov handouts are ok but too many people take advantage of the system. I have worked with a handful of people that had democratic views. Every one that I met was either from Cali, Illinois or the northeast. I'm from Illinois originally but nowhere near Chicago where all of the corrupt politics are.
    OK, I rambled. I'll just be glad come next November when we can get rid of the current administration. Hopefully people have realized this guy has no business being in office and the only change we got more triple the debt
    Bryan


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    • #3
      good stuff Ken, im a card-carrying republican and right-winger. However, the GOP seems to be catering to smaller and smaller segment of the population and alienating the populist middle of the road values that most (yes still most) americans identify with.

      i stopped listening to politcal talk radio about a year ago because it was mindlessly negative and didnt spend anytime in educating me. Obviously i think Obama is doing a poor job but when conservative media cant give him hand when he does something right i figured it was time for me to switch to ESPN fulltime.

      BTW that opening quote under Gingrich is so dead-on, accurate its not funny......
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      • #4
        The difference between Republicans and Democrats is just talking points. There are certain issues that are wedge issues that divide us, but otherwise everything is the same. Even if they are disagreeing on something, it is not whether or not to do something - it is HOW MUCH OF IT TO DO.

        The Republicans have lost their way.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by fade View Post
          The difference between Republicans and Democrats is just talking points. There are certain issues that are wedge issues that divide us, but otherwise everything is the same. Even if they are disagreeing on something, it is not whether or not to do something - it is HOW MUCH OF IT TO DO.

          The Republicans have lost their way.
          That's because the republican party of today is not the republican party of yesterday. While the democratic party, for the most part, has stayed far to the left, the republican party has shifted more to the center, often dipping into the left, conceding to the democrats who have held their ground better than
          Republicans. The republican party is not the same as a conservative party; sure, it's relatively conservative, but that's not saying much.

          I haven't read the article yet, but after skimming through it quickly it looks interesting.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by dakoose View Post
            That's because the republican party of today is not the republican party of yesterday. While the democratic party, for the most part, has stayed far to the left, the republican party has shifted more to the center, often dipping into the left, conceding to the democrats who have held their ground better than
            Republicans. The republican party is not the same as a conservative party; sure, it's relatively conservative, but that's not saying much.

            I haven't read the article yet, but after skimming through it quickly it looks interesting.
            ie "the republicans have lost their way"
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            • #7
              The biggest issue for the middle class is the complete refusal of the two major parties to compromise.
              Both sides are are more concerned with winning and loosing then making the best decisions for the American people.

              As far as our president doing a horrible job or being unfit to lead. The same was pushed by the media for Bush. Pushed to the point of a TV show advertising his incompetence.

              This has become the norm for american news. Currently it seems as though the bottom canidate in the GOP race receives the most news. The guy that could actually make a difference receives little to none, but the crazy guy that has no chance of doing anything, aside from MTV realworld, is covered all day every day.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fade View Post
                ie "the republicans have lost their way"
                Ha, I didn't see that last line in your post.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by will784 View Post
                  The biggest issue for the middle class is the complete refusal of the two major parties to compromise.
                  Both sides are are more concerned with winning and loosing then making the best decisions for the American people.

                  As far as our president doing a horrible job or being unfit to lead. The same was pushed by the media for Bush. Pushed to the point of a TV show advertising his incompetence.

                  This has become the norm for american news. Currently it seems as though the bottom canidate in the GOP race receives the most news. The guy that could actually make a difference receives little to none, but the crazy guy that has no chance of doing anything, aside from MTV realworld, is covered all day every day.
                  I would argue that "compromise" has destroyed the republican party, their desire to appeal to others or at least not "offend" people has led to a party with no leadership of any substance...no moral platform, no back bone when it comes to OUR constitution. I won't go into specific issues because then it turns into an argument about those issues when that's not the point, the point is that what republicans...true republicans....believe in has been diluted and many get to the point where they will still vote republican because they think "hey, he is still better than the other guy" but is he (any republican candidate)? True conservatives should send a message and only vote for polititions that share their views and NOT vote for the lesser evil. It won't happen because most are not willing to risk suffering more short term to try and right the ship... Oh well.

                  BTW I am a libertarian... I believe in our constitution...and not just what I like or what suites me.

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                  • #10
                    The author of that article is the exact type of "republican" I am talking about. I know many don't think in terms of right and wrong but I do and if one thing is right and one thing is wrong (whether it be according to our constitution or in general terms of what's right for our country) I don't believe in compromising and being a lill right, cause a lill right is still wrong.
                    Follow my NEW journal if you please:


                    http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=48304

                    "They say I'm no good...cause I'm so hood, rich folks do not want me around" 50

                    "You are you. That is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You."
                    Dr. Seuss


                    I would like to thank all the stupid people of the world. Without you guys I would only be average.


                    "Tell them bitches get a stick I'm done leading the blind"
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                    • #11
                      i think one major issue with our government is that rather than being more and more polarized, our two branches are more similar than any other two branches in any given government around the world...30 years ago, our lefts and rights were more different...nowadays it doesnt matter, each president has the same rhetoric and the decision making is shit whether its republicans or democrats, barack obama sucks, so did george w. and his dad, clinton wasnt perfect either but reagan was the real asshole in my opinion by opening up our government to the influence of bankers and other greedy assholes... and thats the real disgusting part is that todays government is a who's who of fortune 500 companies of the past 30 years who have run our country like a business to fill their pockets and the pockets of their friends at the expense of the citizens...

                      *end rant, lol i hate politics
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                      • #12
                        I'm short on time, but I will offer this....

                        I'm a staunch social & fiscal conservative, but I have a hint of libertarian in me as well. (I think most "conservatives" are this way, but most aren't aware of it.) I think the republicans have steered away from traditional fiscal conservatisim while holding onto their "conservative status" by merely sticking to the social issues. This fools alot of people simply because they're not engaged enough in politics to know any better, but it doesn't work for the few people who pay attention to the whole picture.

                        Both parties spend WAY too much money, period. However, since our country is drunk on entitlements, this is simply a way of shoring up permanent voting blocks. It is sad to think that MOST people vote for whoever is going to line their pockets the most. As long as that holds true, a person that has the moral convictions and understanding of the founding principles will never win an election......unless things fall apart and the "reset button" is hit. Which I think WILL happen.....it's just a matter of time. My preference though would be for it to happen sooner than later, because I would rather do the suffering than pass it on along to my children.

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                        • #13
                          No matter what, people will vote against their best interests. If you think any party represents you, your wrong. Lobbying has undermined our entire system.

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                          • #14
                            Interesting read. I wish he would have stated more reference to his "facts" though such as a reduction in fiscal upward mobility during the last decade when the republicans held office most of the time. I don't think fiscal upward mobility has decreased, but then again, maybe my situation is different than most - wish he would've cited a source on this. Also, sure republicans had control most of that time, but there were some key democratic moves during the Clinton era etc. that also contributed to a lot of where the economy is today, IMO. However, the author is correct in that the republican party has somewhat lost it's way....matter of fact, I believe both parties have lost their way - simply sticking to political correctness instead of what is right or wrong and just disagreeing with each other to be spiteful instead of putting their personal interests aside in order to make way for the best interest of the country. It is sad.

                            American politics is a joke. I am one to choose "the lesser of the two evils" as well now also. I agree 99% percent of the time what the conservative candidate SAYS, however, my confidence in he/she actually doing what they say has become less and less.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 5spotbullseye View Post
                              I'm short on time, but I will offer this....

                              I'm a staunch social & fiscal conservative, but I have a hint of libertarian in me as well. (I think most "conservatives" are this way, but most aren't aware of it.) I think the republicans have steered away from traditional fiscal conservatisim while holding onto their "conservative status" by merely sticking to the social issues. This fools alot of people simply because they're not engaged enough in politics to know any better, but it doesn't work for the few people who pay attention to the whole picture.

                              Both parties spend WAY too much money, period. However, since our country is drunk on entitlements, this is simply a way of shoring up permanent voting blocks. It is sad to think that MOST people vote for whoever is going to line their pockets the most. As long as that holds true, a person that has the moral convictions and understanding of the founding principles will never win an election......unless things fall apart and the "reset button" is hit. Which I think WILL happen.....it's just a matter of time. My preference though would be for it to happen sooner than later, because I would rather do the suffering than pass it on along to my children.
                              Is it crazy to think that voting should be a privilege only afforded to tax-payers? Why should people who don't actually "invest" in a country be allowed to make decisions regarding it's future? And no, it is not an inalienable right. Just by instituting an age limit, it's implied that a certain intellectual capacity is required to vote. Why shouldn't investment in the country be just as important? This sounds radical but I don't like it that people mooching off of the government get to vote.
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