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  • Everything nutrition

    Hey all,

    Ive been posting quite often the past 2 weeks here as I want this forum to be sparked back up to what I hear it used to be like.

    With that being said, lets dive into nutrition topics here. Macros, micros, nutrient timing, food choices, digestion, fiber etc.

    Im going to post my overall thoughts and what I find to work with myself and my clients and I would love to hear how you all take your approach as well.

    With my clients, it is clearly different for everyone but I keep a couple simple rules.
    • We scale things raw. I see far too many variables in ways things are cooked and the weight they end up at after that. Along with most of my clients can't cook things the same way everyday and stick to it longer than a month or so.
    • I prefer 3-4 servings of veggies a day to promote healthy digestion/bowel movements alongside getting in micronutrients a lot of bodybuilders may miss.
    • I REQUIRE 2.4g EPA/DHA combined daily. Ive seen crazy benefits on myself alongside my clients from a higher dose here.
    • If possible, I prefer at least 1 meal to be red meat. Not a necessity but I do think there are benefits. If regular red meat gives you digestion issues, grass-fed may be the move.
    • Drink between 6-8L of H2O daily.
    • Keep protein powders to a minimum. 1-2 scoops a day MAX. If you're out and about and can't get a real meal in, it won't make a difference once in a while but this should not be done daily.
    • Flexible dieting is king. This does NOT mean 80/20 diet or fit some stupid shit in daily. But I want you to eat meals you enjoy and can continue eating over an extended period of time as consistency over the long haul is what produces results.
    • 0-10 calories sauces/hot sauces are OKAY. If used in excess, track it.
    • Sea Salt every meal--clearly.
    • If a food is causing digestive stress, don't fucking eat it. I don't care how much you like it.
    Simple and straight forward but I find value here. We are what we digest and I find there to be a correlation between enjoying a food and digestion being better.

  • #2
    Alright, im wirh you, let's get some discussion going again.
    • Stop being afraid of carbs. I was a fat kid and spent years afraid of carbs. But I still got incidental carbs from PB, etc ..and then I'd go nuclear PWO or on cheat meals. Held me back;
    • Mixing macros mostly doesn't matter. P/C and P/F meals aren't much different from P/C/F meals. Other than may be pre/post. And/or if you're carbs are all fruity pebbles, them your insulin may get fucked;
    • Know what you're nutritioning for. My diet for strongman isn't great for bodybuilding. It's all the same basics, but not the same;
    • Hire a coach at least once. I hired the skipper years ago for two separate stints. Best investment. Not only did he help me, I learned both directly from him and how to interpret things other nutrition coaches say online(without hiring them). I'm just more intelligent about nutrition now;
    • Studies are interesting, but IMO while I'm usually science>experience, in nutrition experience>science because the science is flawed.

    Comment


    • #3
      yessir, science works but the human body is so intrinsic and changing that sometimes our understanding trumps what science says!

      Comment


      • #4
        General Nutrition Guidelines That I Utilize:

        1. Training days get more calories than non-training days. The increased calories are from carbohydrates.
        2. Non-training days get fewer calories (less carbs) but a little higher fats for satiety. I don't mind being a little hungry and it helps me keep my insulin sensitivity IMO.
        3. I time the MAJORITY of my carbs around the workout window. I would say moderate carb meal pre-workout, intraworkout drink, and then a large carb based meal post-workout. The pre, intra, and post meals are all highly DIGESTIBLE foods for ME. I don't like feeling full or bloated during my workout and my thought is that if there's blood rushing to the GI for digestion, then it will hinder my pump/nutrients getting to the desired muscles. Examples would include cream of rice, rice cakes, etc. with a whey isolate and perhaps a small amount of MCT oil for some fat.
        4. I work a desk job so I do not require as much food as some others may. I'm not really in the group of people that suggest "You just gotta fucking pound food to grow". I have Ulcerative Colitis so let's see how well I digest when I force feed.....not happening lol. I like to keep a slight surplus of around 200 calories for my growing phases. I'd rather stay relatively lean and have a shorter prep than be a gob of goo.
        5. Being someone with an Autoimmune disease, I do agree that some red meats don't digest well with me. I think that is partly due to the fact that I don't process some fats well. Fish, lean turkey, chicken, egg whites, and eggs digest fine though. With that being said I have been eating grass fed 93/7 and also 96/4 beef to which both have been digesting fine. I also choose a lot of low FODMAP foods for easier digestion and drink my greens since I do not always handle vegetables that well in conjunction with the AI issue.

        Thanks Guys!

        Comment


        • #5
          Alright let's try to revive this with some hotter takes:
          • There is no TDEE. There is a TDEE range of +/-200ish calories. This is the basis behind reverse dieting but also why trying to cut/diet too "slowly" is ineffective;
          • You CAN train the body to increase or decrease TDEE (but very slowly);
          • The popular conception of starvation mode is a myth, BUT the above helps explain why people can end up with disproportionately low calories if they diet too inefficiently;
          • Carb timing matters more for gastrointestinal distress than actual performance;
          • There isn't a post-workout window where if you miss it, you'll "lose your gains" but putting food in that hour or so after you train (if you train hard) is critical to getting glycogen in the muscles and facilitating recovery;
          • I also think you can eat more total calories if you budget a greater amount to PWO;
          • The fat profile of grass fed beef and free range/pasture raised eggs really makes a difference;
          • Reacting to scale weight with diet changes needs to be over a course of weeks. The same total calories can produce totally different scale weights (or enough to change strategy if evaluating on a weekly basis) depending on how they're distributed and how much water you take in;
          • CICO is the be all to end all of weight gain/loss, but that is like saying w"is wet". It is true as far as it goes, but hormones, training, calorie quality, (and to a lesser extent timing) change the composition of that weight. It's misleading for nutrition "experts" to act like CICO is all that matters, knowing that most people's goals are appearance or performance based

          Comment


          • #6
            This is a good topic and discussion. I don't agree with everything posted so far, but I also understand that people have different viewpoints on how to diet and I respect that.

            Skip


            Facebook: Skip Hill
            Instagram: @intensemuscle
            YouTube: TEAMSKIP
            TikTok: @intensemuscle


            For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

            Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
              This is a good topic and discussion. I don't agree with everything posted so far, but I also understand that people have different viewpoints on how to diet and I respect that.

              Skip
              I agree, my pre-workout is probably way different than yours.
              Anyone can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right
              person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose,
              and in the right way, that is not easy.
              -- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by teamD View Post
                Hey all,

                Ive been posting quite often the past 2 weeks here as I want this forum to be sparked back up to what I hear it used to be like.

                With that being said, lets dive into nutrition topics here. Macros, micros, nutrient timing, food choices, digestion, fiber etc.

                Im going to post my overall thoughts and what I find to work with myself and my clients and I would love to hear how you all take your approach as well.

                With my clients, it is clearly different for everyone but I keep a couple simple rules.
                • We scale things raw. I see far too many variables in ways things are cooked and the weight they end up at after that. Along with most of my clients can't cook things the same way everyday and stick to it longer than a month or so.
                • I prefer 3-4 servings of veggies a day to promote healthy digestion/bowel movements alongside getting in micronutrients a lot of bodybuilders may miss.
                • I REQUIRE 2.4g EPA/DHA combined daily. Ive seen crazy benefits on myself alongside my clients from a higher dose here.
                • If possible, I prefer at least 1 meal to be red meat. Not a necessity but I do think there are benefits. If regular red meat gives you digestion issues, grass-fed may be the move.
                • Drink between 6-8L of H2O daily.
                • Keep protein powders to a minimum. 1-2 scoops a day MAX. If you're out and about and can't get a real meal in, it won't make a difference once in a while but this should not be done daily.
                • Flexible dieting is king. This does NOT mean 80/20 diet or fit some stupid shit in daily. But I want you to eat meals you enjoy and can continue eating over an extended period of time as consistency over the long haul is what produces results.
                • 0-10 calories sauces/hot sauces are OKAY. If used in excess, track it.
                • Sea Salt every meal--clearly.
                • If a food is causing digestive stress, don't fucking eat it. I don't care how much you like it.
                Simple and straight forward but I find value here. We are what we digest and I find there to be a correlation between enjoying a food and digestion being better.
                Only thing I would disagree with is measuring proteins raw. The amount of water injected into the proteins can be huge and this is why I prefer to see them weighed after cooking. I can take a frozen chicken breast, "fresh" commercial chicken breast, and a chicken breast from my local farmer down the street. Each portion can weigh the exact same before cooking but by the time the water cooks out the difference can be huge. I've personally seen 16 oz. frozen chicken turn into 8 oz. cooked. I buy all my proteins from local ranchers and if i measure out an 8 oz. chicken breast i'm getting a 7 oz. chicken breast when cooked.
                Whatever your mind can conceive and believe, you can achieve!!!

                Comment


                • teamD
                  teamD commented
                  Editing a comment
                  So now I would challenge you on that. I want you to go take that same chicken breast you bought from the local rancher and cook it 3-4 different ways(ie. Baked, grilled, pan fry, crock pot etc..). Depending on how long you cook it and the way you cook it that 8oz raw chicken breast isn't always going to cook down to same same weight. If you leave it on the grill too long it may drop down to 4oz or if you cook it perfectly and keep it juicy maybe pan frying it it could come out to 6oz.

                  Im not challenging you in a way that's saying "I'm right" because I know there's many ways to do everything. But I do utilize the raw weight for meats as a coach of mine awhile back(very reputable) had me start doing and I have been consistent with it for 4ish years. And as we know, at the end of the day all that really matters is being able to track consistent trends with food. I buy my meats from the same place and cook them the same 99% of the time so I am able to see consistency, but i do see both sides of the coin here!

              • #9
                Originally posted by TravisMoore View Post
                General Nutrition Guidelines That I Utilize:


                5. Being someone with an Autoimmune disease, I do agree that some red meats don't digest well with me. I think that is partly due to the fact that I don't process some fats well. Fish, lean turkey, chicken, egg whites, and eggs digest fine though. With that being said I have been eating grass fed 93/7 and also 96/4 beef to which both have been digesting fine. I also choose a lot of low FODMAP foods for easier digestion and drink my greens since I do not always handle vegetables that well in conjunction with the AI issue.

                Thanks Guys!
                Good to have you on here and like you I suffer from an autoimmune disease, Chron's. So I feel your pain literally. With regards to red beef I experience similar issues. It is not so much red beef as it is the amount of saturated fats in different cuts of beef. If I have a ribeye, then i'm screwed and i better know where the closest bathroom is. A lot of people with Chron's and i'm guessing Colitis have gallbladder issues because of the development of cholesterol because we don't absorb the bile salts like healthy individual's because of the inflammation. Over time we end up with gallbladder issues. I'm guessing you probably have some gallbladder issues if you did not already know that.
                Whatever your mind can conceive and believe, you can achieve!!!

                Comment


                • TravisMoore
                  TravisMoore commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, lean meats digest fine and I can also eat fattier steaks on occasion. I just make sure that I take a mulit-enzyme with all my meals to help with digestion and absorption.

              • #10
                Originally posted by Ganggreen View Post
                Alright let's try to revive this with some hotter takes:
                • The fat profile of grass fed beef and free range/pasture raised eggs really makes a difference;
                I will agree with you that from a health standpoint they make a difference, but in performance I will completely disagree with. Give me completely identical competitors over the course of a year, one eating grassfed beef / free range eggs and the other eating grain finished beef and free range/pasture raised eggs, the only thing that will be different is one will have less money in his pocket. EPA/DHA are important but not a miracle when it comes to losing fat or building muscle.
                Whatever your mind can conceive and believe, you can achieve!!!

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by Dirkmoneyshot View Post

                  I will agree with you that from a health standpoint they make a difference, but in performance I will completely disagree with. Give me completely identical competitors over the course of a year, one eating grassfed beef / free range eggs and the other eating grain finished beef and free range/pasture raised eggs, the only thing that will be different is one will have less money in his pocket. EPA/DHA are important but not a miracle when it comes to losing fat or building muscle.
                  I completely agree with you. I think that most people believe that grass-fed and free-range will get you into better condition and that is just not the case. Now, I CAN say that free-range chicken breast is leaner, but that's like saying you can get into better condition eating cod than beef.

                  Skip


                  Facebook: Skip Hill
                  Instagram: @intensemuscle
                  YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                  TikTok: @intensemuscle


                  For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                  Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

                  Comment


                  • teamD
                    teamD commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yea I feel the same way here. I have heard of some coaches say "well during prep its all organic meat, free rage eggs etc" and while I was in college I was buying chicken breast from Walmart for $1.79/lb and 18ct eggs for $1.50 and when I prepped then I still got peeled. Now that Im making more money I still don't go for the free range/grass fed options, but I do purchase better quality meats as I can tell a difference in taste/texture/how long the meats last.

                    I can see from a "health" standpoint how these more expensive meats could hold a higher value, but at the end of the day BB is expensive in itself so Ill buy my chicken from Kroger rather than Whole Foods every time.

                • #12
                  Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post

                  I completely agree with you. I think that most people believe that grass-fed and free-range will get you into better condition and that is just not the case. Now, I CAN say that free-range chicken breast is leaner, but that's like saying you can get into better condition eating cod than beef.

                  Skip
                  I agree condition wise. I have noticed little to no difference. However (and this could just be me), I find that I digest grass fed beef and eggs much better than grain fed. Chicken I find 0 difference in digestion so I buythe cheap shit too. My working theory is that (at least for me) the fats agree with me better. Previously I had always thought I was kinda stuck with chicken and fish as my only consistent options

                  nowfor a bb'er thata probably important but not vital. But, from my perspective, that's critical. Pushing to near 1-3 rep maxes arequires a level of...trust in ones digestive tract that I don't get with grain fed. It also keeps me off the damn toilet all day.
                  Btw I'm talking grass fed ground beef or cheap cuts. f0 need for the grass fed filet. Lol

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by Dirkmoneyshot View Post

                    Only thing I would disagree with is measuring proteins raw. The amount of water injected into the proteins can be huge and this is why I prefer to see them weighed after cooking. I can take a frozen chicken breast, "fresh" commercial chicken breast, and a chicken breast from my local farmer down the street. Each portion can weigh the exact same before cooking but by the time the water cooks out the difference can be huge. I've personally seen 16 oz. frozen chicken turn into 8 oz. cooked. I buy all my proteins from local ranchers and if i measure out an 8 oz. chicken breast i'm getting a 7 oz. chicken breast when cooked.
                    I'm also a cooked weight guy. I think the difference is negotiable if you're consistent in sourcing and cooking method and it's just so much easier. I use slightly different weights for different cooking methods based on what I've backed out over the yeara

                    Comment

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