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Old 06-25-2012, 03:30 PM   #1
trojandogg
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Caffeine: Vasodilator vs. Vasoconstrictor

Hello all. I had a quick question. I have tried researching this but can't come up with a definitive answer. I was wondering if caffeine was a vasodilator or a vasoconstrictor. Or is it both. I only ask this because i wanted to find a cheaper source of energy BEFORE my workouts vs buying the expensive Noxplode or Jack3d. I thought taking straight caffeine supplements from true nutrition would do the trick. If it has only vasoconstriction qualities then i probably shouldn't be using it i suppose. Thoughts?

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Old 06-25-2012, 03:46 PM   #2
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I'm no expert but I've always heard that caffeine helps to open the blood vessels(vasodilator) to allow for more blood flow. Caffeine is the only supp I use pre-workout for energy and to me it works just as well as NO-Xplode ever did. I take 200mg before workouts only.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:48 PM   #3
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Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor. It is the other ingredients like citrulline malate and arginine that have vasodilation properties.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002338.htm

http://www.udel.edu/chem/C465/senior...siological.htm
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Last edited by mentalflex; 06-25-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:50 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by mentalflex View Post
Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor. It is the other ingredients like citrulline malate and arginine that have vasodilation properties.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002338.htm
Good info MF. Thank you. It works well for enegy purposes though.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:55 PM   #5
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Good info MF. Thank you. It works well for enegy purposes though.
Yes, it will increase heart rate and blood flow so when coupled with a vasodilator the effects become more pronounced (meaning more blood flow thus greater pump).
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mentalflex View Post
Yes, it will increase heart rate and blood flow so when coupled with a vasodilator the effects become more pronounced (meaning more blood flow thus greater pump).
I would probably go with caffeine alone just for energy. If he's after energy and pump, I'd probably go with Buzzsaw from TN or something similar. What do you think?
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:05 PM   #7
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I like glycocarn for pumps.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:32 PM   #8
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Thanks SadButTrue and Mentalflex!

My only real use for it was the boost of energy that caffeine gives. Should i not take it if it is vasoconstrictor? Should i always take a vasodilator with it? Is a vasodilator really that beneficial in the gym anyways besides maybe the psychological effect it brings when viewing oneself in the mirror while working out?
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:51 PM   #9
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I honestly only use the caffeine. I train DC and have not had any problems with gains IMO. Could I do better with a NO product? Maybe. But I am on a tight budget and can't afford it. If you can afford it, go for it. It won't hurt.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:12 PM   #10
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Yes, it will increase heart rate and blood flow so when coupled with a vasodilator the effects become more pronounced (meaning more blood flow thus greater pump).
No, combining caffeine with a vasodilator will cancel out effects if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you will get some really horrible drug interactions, like what happens if you take clen + viagra. Learned that one the hard way.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by trojandogg View Post
Thanks SadButTrue and Mentalflex!

My only real use for it was the boost of energy that caffeine gives. Should i not take it if it is vasoconstrictor? Should i always take a vasodilator with it? Is a vasodilator really that beneficial in the gym anyways besides maybe the psychological effect it brings when viewing oneself in the mirror while working out?
No, you can take caffeine on its own for energy without a vasodilator. It isn't going to hamper you at all. Caffeine stimulates the CNS, which would positively affect the an individual in two ways: through perceived exertion and through increased neural activation of muscle contraction.

Caffeine also increases the release early in exercise of free fatty acids into the blood. The increase in fatty acid availability leads to increased muscle fat oxidation and decreased carbohydrate oxidation, thus sparing muscle glycogen for use later in exercise. The extra store of glycogen benefits the individual by delaying the onset of fatigue.

Feel free to incorporate caffeine as the vasoconstriction effects will not likely hinder your gains or progress.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:14 PM   #12
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No, combining caffeine with a vasodilator will cancel out effects if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you will get some really horrible drug interactions, like what happens if you take clen + viagra. Learned that one the hard way.
Sammich, then why are all of these companies combining arginine with caffeine? Is it that the arginine is not as significant of a vasodilator?

I believe I have fallen victim to bro-science...

Can you elaborate on your experience?
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Last edited by mentalflex; 06-25-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #13
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Mental, I heard, you shouldn't take caffeine and arginine at the same time, because they will cancel each other out basically. Maybe that was just bro science I heard.
Are you saying you get better pumps with both. I Have never been a pre workout Supp user.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:17 PM   #14
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Damn I am a slow typer, I guess sammich answered my question.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #15
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If your after a pump and price is no object just get a script for viagra....no OTC sup can compare. If arginine worked then there would be no market for viagra (if it worked it would be sold as an 'ed' drug and not at gnc).

For energy....drink a redbull.

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Old 06-25-2012, 08:12 PM   #16
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Arginine works well, just not at the levels that are in OTC supplements. As I've said before, one needs 10-15+ grams of it a day to really make an impact.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:48 PM   #17
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If your after a pump and price is no object just get a script for viagra....no OTC sup can compare. If arginine worked then there would be no market for viagra (if it worked it would be sold as an 'ed' drug and not at gnc).

For energy....drink a redbull.

Peace.
Why would I want all that sugar in a redbull, when I can take 1 200mg caffeine pill.

Also, I don't want to work out with a hard dick, if I take Viagra.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:48 PM   #18
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If your after a pump and price is no object just get a script for viagra....no OTC sup can compare. If arginine worked then there would be no market for viagra (if it worked it would be sold as an 'ed' drug and not at gnc).

For energy....drink a redbull.

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Old 06-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #19
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Arginine works well, just not at the levels that are in OTC supplements. As I've said before, one needs 10-15+ grams of it a day to really make an impact.
So the premise that these pre-workout products are based on is just marketing B.S. (given that none of them contain that much arginine)?
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:55 PM   #20
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So the premise that these pre-workout products are based on is just marketing B.S. (given that none of them contain that much arginine)?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaabsolutely. Now they might have other ingredients that could do something, like citrulline malatate, but the amounts of MOST ingredients in them isn't enough to do anything. The only ingredients most of them DON'T skimp on are the stimulants, because if those are not in the product, you can actually TELL.

For example, compare the dosages of creatine, beta alanine, and arginine that I use in my custom mix with the amounts LISTED in a usual OTC mix. First off, the listed amounts aren't enough to do a damn thing, and second, most of them are completely lying out their ASS about what is actually IN the product.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:01 PM   #21
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:06 PM   #22
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Why would I want all that sugar in a redbull, when I can take 1 200mg caffeine pill.

Also, I don't want to work out with a hard dick, if I take Viagra.
Well the.sugar helps with the energy, its not just the.caffeine that gives it the kick and I was of course half joking about the redbull....yea they work but I've mentioned many times how many I drink so that was half a joke.
As far as viagra goes and getting a hard on... What viagra does is just what everyone is trying to accomplish with all the N.O. products out there. Can arginine at a real high dose have ANY effect? It may but if it was comparable at any dose it would not be.sold as a BB sup but instead as an 'ed' sup/drug.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:50 PM   #23
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No, combining caffeine with a vasodilator will cancel out effects if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you will get some really horrible drug interactions, like what happens if you take clen + viagra. Learned that one the hard way.
Almost took viagra this weekend to try and keep up with my new girl but opted out of it. Can you elaborate more on what happened?
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:55 PM   #24
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Almost took viagra this weekend to try and keep up with my new girl but opted out of it. Can you elaborate more on what happened?
I got the following: fever (body temp was about 101), the WORST headache I have ever had in my life, nausea, sweating, and rapid heartbeat. I was actually dumb enough to repeat the experiment afterwards to confirm that it was the medications interacting and not an illness, and I confirmed my hypothesis.

If I recall correctly, it was Cialis and clen that I took. I remember it lasted about a day, since both the drugs have absurdly long half-lives.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:03 AM   #25
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Ouch!
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