Get Adobe Flash player
IntenseMuscle.com
   








Go Back   IntenseMuscle.com > Main Forums > The DOGG Pound

The DOGG Pound The Official Home of DOGGCRAPP Training. Discuss DC training, workouts, concepts and methodology, here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2007, 12:57 AM   #1
rubinsteinnyc
Light-heavyweight Member
 
rubinsteinnyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC- L.E.S.
Posts: 1,499
the truth about stretching...

...I am getting certified as a personal trainer at ECITS organization. One of the guys that is teaching the class is a highly acclaimed personal trainer got certificates from ACSM and others...
today, he was talking about static stretching... and he stated THAT it is dangerous EVEN in between sets... claims that it only adds to the trauma of the worked muscle, tearing it up... i was stunned and speechless... i told him how it adds to the fullness of the muscle, and helps recovery and all... he was just shaking his head... do not flame me, it's just an opinion of a guy who trains the navy, pro football, basketball, baseball teams... comp. fitness figure women

any comments?
__________________
-everything happens for a reason

NEMO, NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT...

"I'm always misunderstanding shit. It reminds me of the time this girl at the gym asked me if I'd train her....

I thought DAMN HELL YEAH!

Told her "Let me call some of my buddies and we'll set it up" -SuperD
rubinsteinnyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 01:09 AM   #2
boondocksmuscle
Super-heavyweight Member
 
boondocksmuscle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: in the squat rack
Posts: 4,716
some ppl just dont believe in it...i didnt at first...but after i actually tried it consistently i really like it...but if someone is uneducated then they might take it to far and injure themselves...but that can happen with anything...just my opinion
__________________
Trey Potter CSCS


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Remember, if you can’t pick it, grow it, or kill it, you shouldn’t be eating it.- Justin Harris

Bodybuilding is stressful. The joy is seeing how incredibly the body adapts. The smart thing is to keep the machine as healthy as possible along the way, IMO.- Homon[/FONT]
boondocksmuscle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 01:13 AM   #3
mhschiefs97
Middleweight Member
 
mhschiefs97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 636
He was completely against all stretching? I am not big on stretching a body part until it is already finished being worked out and that works awesome for me. I do agree with him that you are just adding to the trauma by stretching a body part in the middle of working it out. There are exceptions though. That is just my opinion though.
__________________
I don't like my username so just call me Chris lol.

"The only way to find the limits of the possible is by going beyond them to the impossible."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DISCOUNT CODE- CGD555

"If people were 1/10th as worried about the rest of their meals as they were about the post workout shake, there would be a hell of a lot more people looking like bodybuilders. "
-Trop
mhschiefs97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 02:09 AM   #4
prolangtum
Light-heavyweight Member
 
prolangtum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 786
everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe there is some science to what he has to say......but results are results....and for bodybuilders, weighted fascia stretching has proven to work.
prolangtum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 05:28 AM   #5
Phil1369
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 78
Why have all the osteopaths and chiropractors I've dealt with recommended it ?
They all warn against stretching a cold muscle.
Phil1369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 09:39 AM   #6
Cerberus
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 18
Context, context, context. To completely statisfy a good argument, we need more substance to work with. Generalizations are killers. i.e. stretching a cold muscle. (btw, is actually a good method of stretching if applied correctly)
Cerberus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 10:19 AM   #7
homonunculus
Super Moderator/Roundtable Expert
 
homonunculus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 17,278
Pretty simple - just provide some scientific references and/or evidence (before and after pictures for instance) for these statements:

"static stretching... and he stated THAT it is dangerous EVEN in between sets..."

"for bodybuilders, weighted fascia stretching has proven to work."

-R
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's
homonunculus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 10:37 AM   #8
horsepower
Light-heavyweight Member
 
horsepower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,198
Perhaps he was referring to an already injured muscle --I can imagine how excessive static stretching could exacerbate a problem.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...where I log my attempt to obtain a medical waiver, get fit, get strong, and enter the armed forces.
horsepower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 10:40 AM   #9
prolangtum
Light-heavyweight Member
 
prolangtum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by homonunculus View Post

"for bodybuilders, weighted fascia stretching has proven to work."

-R
scientifiically proven, no....anedoctally yes. Whenever I train DC style I notice hypertrophy in certain areas where I feel the "stretch" when doing the weighted stretches. Quads, chest, and biceps particularly. I know im not alone in this area.
prolangtum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 12:17 PM   #10
Luci
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
i can feel the stretch in my chest, lats, bis and quads the most but have big difficulties in stretching other body parts and notice a faster growth in the "better stretched" body parts
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 12:27 PM   #11
tadams
Middleweight Member
 
tadams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: massachusetts- go sox
Posts: 576
There are a bunch of studies that have come out recently that have said static stretching a muscle group immediately before weightlifting can increase the risk of injury, i guess he could be referring to one of these. I even saw an article written by Charles Poliquin that said the same thing. The problem with a lot of these studies is that they have conflicting results. Lets not forget about all the studies that talk about protein consumption and how almost every one says high protein diets are useless and you can only take in something like .8g/ lb bodyweight.
__________________
Best Supplements on the Web:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Discount Code: THA222

"By the end I'm gonna be the only one standing"
tadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 12:41 PM   #12
Sentinel
Banned by Skip for being a bitch
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadams View Post
There are a bunch of studies that have come out recently that have said static stretching a muscle group immediately before weightlifting can increase the risk of injury, i guess he could be referring to one of these. I even saw an article written by Charles Poliquin that said the same thing. The problem with a lot of these studies is that they have conflicting results. Lets not forget about all the studies that talk about protein consumption and how almost every one says high protein diets are useless and you can only take in something like .8g/ lb bodyweight.
good points there
Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 10:14 PM   #13
rubinsteinnyc
Light-heavyweight Member
 
rubinsteinnyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC- L.E.S.
Posts: 1,499
actually, i asked HIM and other guy who is there for re-cert. (competitive PL and BBer) and i asked him " do you tell your clients to stretch the bodypart they were workin on after they are done?" he said "NO"...

-homonunculus- ill ask him for the scientific data on which he bases his statement.
__________________
-everything happens for a reason

NEMO, NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT...

"I'm always misunderstanding shit. It reminds me of the time this girl at the gym asked me if I'd train her....

I thought DAMN HELL YEAH!

Told her "Let me call some of my buddies and we'll set it up" -SuperD
rubinsteinnyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 10:42 PM   #14
bhman6
Roundtable Expert
 
bhman6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Stow, OH
Posts: 6,789
maybe he was referring to stretching heavily BEFORE a workout or game, which has been shown to reduce work output
__________________
CEO of Morphogen Nutrition
MorphogenNutrition.com



2012 NPC Natural Ohio
2010 NGA Pro Universe
2010 NPC Monster Mash
2010 ONBF Natural Fall Classic
2010 NPC Natural Pennsylvania
2010 NPC Natural Northern USA
2010 INBF Cardinal Classic
2008 NPC Natural Northern USA
2008 NPC Ohio State
2004 NPC Natural Northern USA
bhman6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 12:07 AM   #15
rubinsteinnyc
Light-heavyweight Member
 
rubinsteinnyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC- L.E.S.
Posts: 1,499
nah, def, not... we were even laughing at people stretching BEFORE having the muscle "warm"...
and i specifically stated, in between sets and after
__________________
-everything happens for a reason

NEMO, NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT...

"I'm always misunderstanding shit. It reminds me of the time this girl at the gym asked me if I'd train her....

I thought DAMN HELL YEAH!

Told her "Let me call some of my buddies and we'll set it up" -SuperD
rubinsteinnyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 12:13 AM   #16
GBAGH
Lightweight Member
 
GBAGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey. Home of nothing good LMAO.
Posts: 426
I stretch a little bit before every workout. I haven't ever had any substantial injuries. I think that the key is to not overdo anything. If you take anything to extremes you could end up hurt pretty bad. I guess that I just considered stretching part of warming up. I don't do the fascia stretching before working out, but I always do some light stretching to make sure that everything is in working order before I put my muscles against the weights.
__________________
Pain is the fuel that fans the flames of my pyre. A battleplan is only as good as the general carrying it out on the field. This is my war son, and I have the biggest bombs and the smallest conscience.
GBAGH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 08:06 AM   #17
Number69
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 81
Out of interest, from our point of view, what is the harm in extra trauma and tering on the muscle seen as we effectively utilise this high intensity method and short workouts with lots of food to grow???
Number69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 01:38 PM   #18
Callavaro
Lightweight Member
 
Callavaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by prolangtum View Post
everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe there is some science to what he has to say......but results are results....and for bodybuilders, weighted fascia stretching has proven to work.
__________________
"Throw a stone into a pool and it will make a splash
and the wave will run to the edges of the pool.
The larger the stone, the larger the splash
and the larger the resulting wave." - Arthur Jones
Callavaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 09:00 PM   #19
dakota1981
Bantamweight Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 240
Everyone has an opinion. And he, in my opinion, is wrong.
dakota1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 09:24 PM   #20
homonunculus
Super Moderator/Roundtable Expert
 
homonunculus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 17,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by prolangtum View Post
scientifiically proven, no....anedoctally yes. Whenever I train DC style I notice hypertrophy in certain areas where I feel the "stretch" when doing the weighted stretches. Quads, chest, and biceps particularly. I know im not alone in this area.
I'm not going to say that I disagree with you, but I feel like playing the Devil's advocate...

Neither scientific studies nor anecdotal evidence proves anything. Proofs (meaning an absolute truth - something that is always true) are done mathematics. (This is a pet peeve - all of the language saying "clinically proven" is egregiously incorrect, IMO.)

It would make sense that a hypertrophying area would be most felt during the stretch. This does not necessarily mean that the stretch is causing the hypertrophy... (Again, I'm just being an asshole here... LOL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadams View Post
There are a bunch of studies that have come out recently that have said static stretching a muscle group immediately before weightlifting can increase the risk of injury, i guess he could be referring to one of these. I even saw an article written by Charles Poliquin that said the same thing. The problem with a lot of these studies is that they have conflicting results. Lets not forget about all the studies that talk about protein consumption and how almost every one says high protein diets are useless and you can only take in something like .8g/ lb bodyweight.
Please, post some links or somethin', man. An abstract, a URL, a quote - somethin'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadams View Post
Lets not forget about all the studies that talk about protein consumption and how almost every one says high protein diets are useless and you can only take in something like .8g/ lb bodyweight.
If you read the literature (e.g. Peter Lemon or Mark Tarnopolsky's work), you'll see that the scientists are not saying this...

(Ahhh, I feel better now... LOL)

-R
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's
homonunculus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 AM.






Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.