Arms question... ****moved by Dante because I want the doggpound to see the 2nd page

[woodbear]

Im gonna update on my progress then last two years. No dc traing, but many of the ideas have been used. I trained like cedric, biceps or triceps after every major muscle group, hitting them two to even four times a week. Ate alot, put on 25lbs of fat and muscle. (163cm tall, 82kg max weight, 20% bodyfat..) arms got to 18" pumped.
Dieted down in 4 months to 7% bodyfat, (70kg) and arms get to 17" pumped..full of veins when training... Looking alot bigger than the 18" fat things.
My biceps are short, but my brachis, along with very thick triceps from all the cg benches..
Make them really thick if i hold then like in a side chest pose ..

A high frequency really paid off on the bulk, but..they will never be as good as one with longer bellies..
sample picture... crappy, but shows to a certain degree, they are damn short, but close grip benches sure made them thicker..

[Deepsquat3]

Originally Posted by goliath23

I wouldnt jump the gun. I gained 60+ lbs(not all muscle I must say but still) and my arms didnt budge nothing.

But anyways thats my problem.

I would give it some time see if it works after 3-6 months then go from there. Dont jump the gun too early but then again dont waste your time doing some useless stuff that isnt working anyways

\

I can't believe your arms did not grow AT LEAST three inches

[woodbear]

yep, I put on over an inch , almost 1,5 inches on a good day, including fat gaining about 25lbs..

[tms1978]

awesome triceps man. what are you current goals?

[woodbear]

Mine?:-) in that case thanx.

I found out that years of pushups daily from martial arts in my teens, allowed me to train them moderate almost daily. 4-5 sets. Along with more dedicated work on chest day or shoulder day... Biceps on the other hand, does not have that buildup from those days, but still respond better to a little work very often, than alot once a week

The extreme frequency makes my arms never sore, and hardly warm ups needed...and boom..they grew alot ..they used to feel weak when i hit them onc week..biceps felt like tearing from just shoveling snow or picking up shopping bags..

My goals, now it was just getting to " gladiator/spartacus" lean for the summer...i ll never step on a stage...

[tms1978]

Originally Posted by woodbear

Mine?:-) in that case thanx.

I found out that years of pushups daily from martial arts in my teens, allowed me to train them moderate almost daily. 4-5 sets. Along with more dedicated work on chest day or shoulder day... Biceps on the other hand, does not have that buildup from those days, but still respond better to a little work very often, than alot once a week

The extreme frequency makes my arms never sore, and hardly warm ups needed...and boom..they grew alot ..they used to feel weak when i hit them onc week..biceps felt like tearing from just shoveling snow or picking up shopping bags..

My goals, now it was just getting to " gladiator/spartacus" lean for the summer...i ll never step on a stage...

Yeah yours
Good luck getting lean Spartan.

[Undertow]

Dante, do you still believe spot injections make a difference? This thread is pretty old and I'm not sure if your opinion has changed or not...I don't know what to think on it.

[stacked1]

Originally Posted by Undertow

Dante, do you still believe spot injections make a difference? This thread is pretty old and I'm not sure if your opinion has changed or not...I don't know what to think on it.

Found this from the old cycle for pennies: "I think anything, site injections, synthol, extreme stretching, that can stretch the fascia isextremely beneficial. What I have wondered is --that idiot from NY Greg Valentino who syntholedor site injected his arms up to 25 inches--if his fascia has actually torn or has it truly stretched thatmuch"

[JohnnyBravo]

So I am going to throw this out there:

DoggPound,

A lot of us have those "WAAAHHH my arms aren't big enough days" so what does that mean?

What is a good size arm for your size?

I've seen those charts, including the Grecian and Steve Reeves, and the other one where it took an aggregate of the Mr. America (?) winners.

I'd assume we would use ratios here, since my 220 lbs (6'1") is a fuckload different than itd be for mentalflex or dobie (short guys) so presumably my arms would be much smaller at 220 shredded than theirs, but none of the ratios I have seen are satisfying imo.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by Sammich

From a lot of the recent posting I've seen, the "WAAAAHH my arms aren't big enough!" posts are because the people need to put on about 40-80 pounds of muscle before they start concerning themselves with arm size.

that's probably true. And if I wanted truly massive arms, yeah I'd need to get some assistance and put on another 40-80lb. I am good with my arm size to body size ratio, I was jw.

EDIT: what the flying fuck, I quoted that Sammich post and it disappeared...

[ShinjiG]

Worse case, you can try going under the knife and ask the surgeon to move your insertion points. Good luck finding a doctor that'd do that though. And you'd still be out of commission for the next 6-9 months going through rehab. Missing out on potential muscle growth.

[SRO]

I haven't read this whole thread but I see we are talking that arm size comes down to genetics just like every other body part. On a side note of that, what has beens everyones experience on the average gain in arms size from your beginning to now? I started thinking about this a couple years ago and it seems most men I know end up about 5 inches from where they started. I started with 12" arms and now they are 17" after more years than I want to admit and 80 pounds gained. Natural this whole time. A friend of mine started at 15.5" and ended up at 21.5" after a couple years and a few cycles. Maybe he would have grown even more but he decided to not chase bodybuilding past the state level and to just do it for fun again, he is still big of course. So he had a 6 inch gain with help so maybe 5 for him if he had stayed natural. Anyone else notice a relation similair to this?

[woodbear]

You start big, do things right, you end up very big... Us pencil necka have a lot harder parh, and will never end up huge even with alot of drugs... But there are genetic freaks, i have a firend who started out with 13-14" arms, and is pushing 19" after only a year drug free.. He even lifts light... He just moves a weight and grows from it..
I have to figth for every lbs or mm gain.

I just for the heck of it started doing arm work by feel... Every workout..6-7 times a week..i did triceps 3 days in a row, on day 3 i was sore as hell, just though of training away soreness with some light pumping... Inactually ended up beating a few records! I also started doing a few sets with 3-4 second negatives..and a few regular reps.. For some weird reason thay have gotten bigger again, and more vascular even though i no longer diet. Might just be temporay swelling.. But my arms are getting really strong... But it migh work because i dont do a set program for them like the rest of my bodyparts, i just train them light heavy, slow fast, and anything from 6 to 20 sets... Few heavy, many if i just pump ... Still cannot believe i got record lifts when sore... Note, if they are sore, i start of very easy and strict, and see how it goes... Sometimes im just weak,other times i have been suprised that sorness has nothing todo with how strong i am that day.

[DCBliever]

I read this thread at least 100 times since it was started. Mine finally taped at 17.75". Know what? I stopped training them specifically other than some high rep preacher curls or heavy hammer curls. But My deadlift and squat are well over 500 and my bench is approaching 400. I focused on the heavy compound movements, presses, rows, neutral grip chins, with some volume for arms for the pump/ego factor.

[ShinjiG]

Anyone can get 20" arms. Just eat like a sumo wrestler and not do anything else. Get your weight up to 600lbs and then you'll have your 20" arms.

Getting 20" arms while being relatively lean though? Thats another matter entirely.

[DCBliever]

Originally Posted by ShinjiG

Anyone can get 20" arms. Just eat like a sumo wrestler and not do anything else. Get your weight up to 600lbs and then you'll have your 20" arms.

Getting 20" arms while being relatively lean though? Thats another matter entirely.

captain f'n obvious in the house

[LG1]

Originally Posted by DCBliever

captain f'n obvious in the house

Water is wet

[mark!]

Originally Posted by ShinjiG

Worse case, you can try going under the knife and ask the surgeon to move your insertion points. Good luck finding a doctor that'd do that though. And you'd still be out of commission for the next 6-9 months going through rehab. Missing out on potential muscle growth.

Originally Posted by ShinjiG

Anyone can get 20" arms. Just eat like a sumo wrestler and not do anything else. Get your weight up to 600lbs and then you'll have your 20" arms.

Getting 20" arms while being relatively lean though? Thats another matter entirely.

What experience do you have with A) DC Training and B) training in general. Stop giving idiotic advice in this section. Even though it's a joke (I hope) some noob is gonna take you at face value.

[woodbear]

Dc believer, i really agree on the high reps, or doing slower reps, especially for biceps

[mark!]

Originally Posted by woodbear

Dc believer, i really agree on the high reps, or doing slower reps, especially for biceps

Slower reps with slow controlled negatives is what got me going, especially for isolation movements.

[thedunhill225]

Originally Posted by mark!

Slower reps with slow controlled negatives is what got me going, especially for isolation movements.

Have you ever tried the Darden style classic super slow reps? Its an 8-10 sec positive with a normal speed (2-4 second) negative. I've been doing them for a lill bit and the pump is better than any other bi ex I've ever done (well 60 second chins are rt there with them). My bis have always been week as hell but they seem to be responding.. I have a vid doing them in my journal if you wanna see what they look like. I don't do them "for the pump", I do them just to keep tension on the bis as long as possible.

Peace

[mentalflex]

I think the quotes below from Dante will add to the discussion and possibly give others some ideas for ways to bring up their arms.

Here is the full thread: http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthr...owmaker&page=2

Originally Posted by Doggcrapp

*****Biceps......this was in response to Ced's emails after i asked him what he was currently doing and some other pertinent questions......I talk in caps in response so the person knows who is who by my large letters compared to his lower case font. I didnt like some of the exercises he was choosing because i dont think they lent itself to what he was after

Again its jumbled because im cutting and pasting my response to him.....


I LOOK AT THINGS LIKE THIS--IF THE BREAD AND BUTTER MOVEMENTS HAVENT GOTTEN
IT DONE IN THE LAST 5-10 YEARS THEN YOU KIND OF HAVE TO GET WEIRD WITH THE
EXERCISES--IF I WAS YOU I WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS

DAY ONE FOR BICEPS

1)STANDING ALTERNATE DUMBELL CURLS BUT WITH THUMB AND FOREFINGER PRESSED
AGAINST THE INNER PLATE AND A BIG SPACE BETWEEN YOUR PINKY SIDE OF YOUR HAND
AND THE BOTTOM PLATE (WHAT THAT DOES IS MAKE IT HARDER TO SUPINATE THE
DUMBELL = INCREASED SIZE) SO I WOULD DO ALTERNATE STANDING DUMBELL CURLS
WITH A LITTLE BODY OOMPH FOR 20 TO 25 REST PAUSED REPS....YOU START WITH THE
DUMBELL IN THE HAMMER POSITION AND SUPINATE AND CURL IT UPWARD

WHICH IS (AFTER WARMING UP THRU PROGRESSIVE SETS) YOU DO 12-15 REPS TO
FAILURE (PUT DUMBELLS DOWN AND TAKE 15 DEEP BREATHES) ANOTHER 6-8 TO FAILURE
(THEN AGAIN 15 DEEP BREATHES) AND THEN 3-4 TO FAILURE AGAIN

THEN I WOULD DO THESE
FOREARMS
2)REVERSE GRIP CABLE CURLS WITH ONE ARM---USE THE HANDLE THAT COMES WITH THE
CABLE CROSSOVER ATTACHEMENT. ITS ACTUALLY A ONE ARM REVERSE CURL BUT YOU
HAVE TO KEEP YOUR WRIST FROM SAGGING AT ALL AS THAT DEFEATS THE EXERCISE, SO
YOU FLEX YOUR HAND UPWARD AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MOVEMENT. AGAIN EXPLAINED
ITS ARM COMPLETELY STRAIGHT -PULLEY IS AT YOUR FEET --TENSION SHOULD BE
THERE RIGHT FROM THE START SO STEP BACK FROM PULLEY UNTIL THE TENSION IS
THERE--FLEX WRIST/HAND UPWARD AND THEN CURL TO THE TOP AND THEN RESIST 6
SECONDS DOWN---YOU WANT A STRAIGHT SET OF 12-20 REPS ON THESE---THERE IS NO
OTHER EXERCISE THAT WILL MAKE YOUR UPPER FOREARMS LARGER THAN THESE --BUT
YOU WANT TO DO SMOOTH REPS NO JERKING HERE OK---IF YOU CAN FLEX THAT
HAND/WRIST UPWARD AND THEN CURL--THESE WILL BE SO MUCH EASIER TO DO---START
WITH LIGHTER WEIGHTS WITH THIS (IT STILL WILL WORK BECAUSE ITS MUSCLES THAT
ARE NOT WORKED MUCH)--IM TALKING 10-30LBS TOPS STARTING OUT OK.... HERE IS A
VIDEO OF THEM I MADE BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE GETTING CONFUSED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf3k-...eature=related

*****sidenote for you guys in Intensemuscle....take a look at Cedrics forearms on the first page, or any DC guy Ive trained and you tell me if these didnt work

AND THEN I WOULD DO A THIRD EXERCISE....A WIDOWMAKER EXERCISE STRAIGHT
SETTED....I USE A WIDOWMAKER EXERCISE WHICH IS AN EXERCISE KIND OF LIKE THE
LATERAL MACHINE WE DID FOR SHOULDERS--HIGHER REPS THAT COME DOWN OVER TIME
AS THE WEIGHT GOES UP.....IF IT WAS ME I WOULD DO A SPIDER BENCH EZ BAR
CURL, OR HAMMER DUMBELL CURL OR PREACHER MACHINE CURL BUT I THINK FROM THE
VIDEO I SAW AND YOUR ABOVE EMAIL YOU SEEM TO LIKE THE CONCENTRATION CURL SO
I WOULD DO THAT FOR 20-25 REPS STARTING OUT BUT I WOULD USE A LITTLE BIT OF
BODY OOMPH ON THE TOUGH REPS TO GET THAT DUMBELL MOVING

THEN NEXT TIME YOU COME IN TO DO BICEPS I WOULD DO THIS

1) EZ BAR DRAG CURL --BUT I WOULD DO THESE A CERTAIN WAY OK---THIS IS HOW
IT IS DONE--WITH A NORMAL WIDTH GRIP YOU CURL THE WEIGHT UP (MAKE SURE YOUR
CHEST IS STICKING OUT AND SHOULDERS BACK) UP TO THE TOP AND THEN LET YOUR
ELBOWS DRIFT BACKWARD AND LET THE BARBELL SLIGHTLY DRAG DOWN YOUR CHEST AND
STOMACH UNTIL YOUR ARMS ARE FULLY STRAIGHT AGAIN (THEN REPEAT) ....LIKE
ALWAYS YOU DO PROGRESSIVE WARMUP SETS AND THEN HIT A HARD SET OF 20-25 REPS
REST PAUSED --THESE ARE CALLED BODY DRAGS AND THAT NEGATIVE THAT SLIGHTLY
DRAGS DOWN THE TORSO REALLY DOES ALOT OF CELLULAR DAMAGE AND REMODELING.
AGAIN CURL UP NORMALLY AND RESIST THE NEGATIVE SOFTLY DRAGGING IT SLOWLY
DOWN THE TORSO UNTIL YOUR ARMS ARE FULL STRAIGHT AND THEN CURL AGAIN

2)REVERSE GRIP CABLE CURLS AGAIN

3) THE CONCENTRATION CURL WIDOWMAKER (OR WHATEVER EXERCISE YOU CHOOSE HERE)
AGAIN

THE THIRD DAY I WOULD GO IN AND DO

1) MACHINE preacher curls(WARMUPS AND THEN A REST PAUSE SET FOR 20-25) BE
CAREFUL ON THESE--DEFINITELY DONT BOUNCE--JUST REALLY SLOW AND CONTROLLED

2) REVERSE GRIP CABLE CURLS AGAIN

3) THE CONCENTRATION CURL WIDOWMAKER (OR WHATEVER EXERCISE YOU CHOOSE HERE)

GIVE ME A DAY TO THINK ABOUT THE TRICEPS AND LOOK THRU THE PICTURES


*****sidenote to the Intensemuscle guys....normally i wouldnt pick the concentration curl widowmaker but Cedric really likes that movement (thats a 3rd of the battle) and he likes to do it with some body oomph to get the dumbell moving (thats the 2nd third of the battle) which is power groove somewhat and because he likes it and can use some body oomph the movement becomes progressive over time with weight used (last 1/3 of the battle).....would i use that movement with Betito or Dusty or Homonuncleus or Scott Mcd or anyone else ..... probably not)

Originally Posted by Doggcrapp

*****Cedric in my opinion was lacking bicep and tricep mass because of the exercises he was picking....I saw alot of cables and isolation work in there that didnt lead to progressive weights at a safe rep range ..... you guys hear me say the words "grinding it out" alot.....you got a weak bodypart? You better bring your workbucket and grind it out on that bodypart over time = find progressive productive exercises that allow for major poundage gains over time.


TRICEPS (jumbled yet again because im cut and pasting my answers)

IF I WAS YOUI WOULD DO SOMETHING TO THIS EFFECT

STICK WITH THIS ON DAY ONE

> Laying (decline) cambered bar tricep extensions: ****Cedric likes this exercise so thats important to me to keep someone in their likes if i can keep those kinds of exercises in thereI WOULD REST PAUSE THAT AFTER WARMUPS FOR 20 REPS MINIMUM NEVER BELOW 20
REPS SO IT WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE 14 + 7 + 3 = 24 REPS REST PAUSED....THIS
IS ONE OF MY TRAINEES AND USUALLY HOW I LIKE THE CADENCE OF THEM DONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1AZe...eature=related
*****i used Jason Wojo because both him and Cedric have the same prep trainer Kevin Dehaven and are familiar with each other

THEN I WOULD DO HAMMER STRENGTH DIP MACHINE FOR THE WIDOWMAKER LIKE YOU DID
WITH THE LATERAL MACHINE--

I WOULD WARM UP AND THEN DO AN ALL OUT STRAIGHT SET FOR 15-25 REPS WITH SOME
OOMPH AND DEEP REPS

DAY TWO I WOULD DO CLOSE GRIP SMYTHE MACHINE PRESSES-REST PAUSED OUT TO
15-20 REPS (KEEP YOUR CHEST HIGH THROUGHOUT THE MOVEMENT WITH SHOULDERS
PINNED BACK AND YOUR SHOULDERS WILL BE OK) --I LIKE PEOPLE TO DO THESE WITH
THEIR ASS OFF THE END/EDGE OF THE BENCH SO IT KEEPS THEIR CHEST HIGH, WHAT I
MEAN BY THIS IS ONLY YOUR BACK WILL BE ON THE BENCH BUT YOUR ASS WILL BE
SLIGHTLY OFF THE EDGE OF IT, WHAT THIS DOES IS FORCE YOUR CHEST TO REMAIN
HIGH THRUOUT THE MOVEMENT AND YOU WONT HURT YOUR SHOULDERS AT ALL -- IF YOU
DONT HAVE A MOVABLE BENCH SO YOU CAN HAVE YOUR BACK ONLY ON IT AND ASS OFF OF
IT...THEN I LIKE PEOPLE TO ROLL UP A TOWEL AND PUT THAT UNDER THE SMALL OF THEIR
BACK

AND THEN AFTER A REST AGAIN I WOULD DO THE HAMMER STRENGTH DIP MACHINE FOR
THE WIDOWMAKER DEEP FULL REPS

ON DAY THREE I WOULD DO THIS EXERCISE

REVERSE GRIP SMITH MACHINE PRESS ON A FLAT BENCH REST PAUSED OUT TO 20 REPS
AFTER WARMUPS (JUST LIKE THE CLOSE GRIPS---KEEP YOUR CHEST HIGH THROUGHOUT
THE MOVEMENT WITH SHOULDERS PINNED BACK AND YOUR SHOULDERS WILL BE OK)
PLEASE KEEP YOUR BUTT OFF THE END OF THE BENCH AND ONLY HAVE YOUR WHOLE BACK
ON THE BENCH SO IT KEEPS YOUR CHEST REALLY HIGH AND GETS YOUR FRONT DELTS
OUT OF THE MOVEMENT--ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO ONLY HAVE YOUR BACK ON THE BENCH
AND YOUR ASS OFF---------- -HANDS ARE USUALLY ABOUT 4 INCHES WIDER THAN THE
SHOULDERS. REMEMBER IF IT DOESNT FEEL RIGHT OR IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WIDEN
THE GRIP SLIGHTLY. THIS EXERCISE PUTS TREMENDOUS MASS ON THE ARMS OVER TIME. TRY TO
FIND YOUR GROOVE DURING WARMUPS PLEASE.
***** VERY IMPORTANT--YOU DONT HAVE TO GRIP THE BAR REALLY TIGHT AS THAT
TWEAKS THE WRISTS OF SOME PEOPLE--I ACTUALLY ONLY GRAB THE BAR TIGHT WITH MY
THUMB AND FOREFINGERS AND THE BAR GOES ACROSS MY PALM AT AN ANGLE, MY PINKY
AND RING FINGER HARDLY GRIP THE BAR BUT THE THUMB, POINTER, AND INDEX
FINGERS DO. EVERYONE HAS TROUBLE WITH THIS EXERCISE THE FIRST TIME OUT AND
THEN PEOPLE FALL IN LOVE WITH IT BECAUSE IT MAKES YOUR TRICEPS HUGE FROM THE
SIDE. IF YOU GO TO 2:50 IN THIS VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14QcYGsryN8 YOU WILL SEE EXACTLY WHAT IM
TALKING ABOUT...THATS JASON WOJO JR NATIONAL LIGHTHEAVY CHAMPION WHO IS ALSO
PREPPED BY KEVIN DEHAVEN WHO PREPS YOU.

AND THEN AGAIN YOU WOULD DO THE HAMMER STRENGTH WIDOWMAKER STRAIGHT SETTED
OUT FOR 15-25 REPS (DEEP REPS)

****We talked about other guys he would be standing next to and how he was going to beat them bodypart wise but you guys cant be privy to all conversations....LOL

[ch4881]

Originally Posted by DCBliever

I read this thread at least 100 times since it was started. Mine finally taped at 17.75". Know what? I stopped training them specifically other than some high rep preacher curls or heavy hammer curls. But My deadlift and squat are well over 500 and my bench is approaching 400. I focused on the heavy compound movements, presses, rows, neutral grip chins, with some volume for arms for the pump/ego factor.

Exactly. I have one of the original posts on this thread claiming I had a similar "issue" with my arms. Back then my only issue was that my head was straight up my ass. Not to mention I had no business doing DC to begin with. When I finally stopped worrying about arms and other dumb shit, and focused on becoming as strong as possible my arms magically grew. Go figure. I've spent the last two years focusing on nothing but compound lifts and constantly upping the weight on squats, deads, bench, with very, very little direct arm work.

[DCBliever]

Originally Posted by ch4881

Exactly. I have one of the original posts on this thread claiming I had a similar "issue" with my arms. Back then my only issue was that my head was straight up my ass. Not to mention I had no business doing DC to begin with. When I finally stopped worrying about arms and other dumb shit, and focused on becoming as strong as possible my arms magically grew. Go figure. I've spent the last two years focusing on nothing but compound lifts and constantly upping the weight on squats, deads, bench, with very, very little direct arm work.

If I can ever tear myself away from powerlifting I may do DC again, its part routine set up but mostly going mental on the log book

[Ultraflexed]

Been doing that routine dante suggested for ced
The only part thats not killing me is biceps
Ive done both routine but biceps dont feel like ive thrashed them
Although ive put max effort
Maybe longer negatives like 5 secs instead of 4 and maybe heavier warm ups and maybe raise the weight on the one working set currently moved up to 90lb, could go alot heavier but want to keep form flawless especially for negatives, maybe ill try the 110lb ez bar next week.

The one time my biceps felt thrashed is when I did three warm up sets of 21's with the 50 an 60lb barbell then did rest pause dumbell preacher curls followed by rest pause drag curl

I didnt stick with doing it like that because I wanted to do it how dante suggested, I am getting stronger but I want to get the most out of the one working set for biceps, everything else like shoulders and triceps have destroyed me.

Any suggestions would be great

By the way my stats
African american/ height 5'10.5/weight:203/ bf:8.5 -9