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Old 04-10-2016, 06:46 PM   #26
phoenix13
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This may not be of any help, but in the event that you can get anything out of it, here goes...

For years I've dealt with a burning/tingling in the area between my spine and scapula, upper/mid back. It flares up from time to time. It's nowhere near as bad as yours. It's very distracting/makes me want to lay down at worst, but that is not the majority of the time, and lately, it's rare for it to get that bad. I've distinctly noticed flareups associated with increased stress, as well as degradation of posture when seated/working at a desk due to fatigue, bad habits, or once again stress. Something that I noticed would consistently flare it up is talking on the phone on that ear (i.e., the changes in posture that would cause, and occasionally an acute offense when I'd hold the phone with my shoulder pinching it to my ear). All these things have in common muscle tension. This may sound crazy (or annoying), but what was recommended to me was meditation. This seemed like bad advice because sitting with perfect posture would aggravate it. But, over time, I think learning how to sit upright properly AND relax (so a balance of tension and relaxation), ultimately has alleviated the symptom. I also never talk on the phone without earbuds if I can help it, and if I don't have them, I'll use the other side. I have no clue what originally caused this issue to occur. It's been as long as I can remember. As for you, you have a hunch about when you fell on the log. If you damaged the joint then (even though you didn't have symptoms immediately or in the way you would've expected), I would try to solve this from the source. I would learn about that part of the body, how it works, how to stabilize it, protect it and give it time to heal. Yours is so progressed, the cortisone may help to get it under control temporarily. You'll have to debunk what you're doing to continue the cycle. We create bad physical habits when we live in chronic pain, and it's a self-defeating cycle. Are you still training hard and heavy? Have you done that throughout this ordeal? If you are, I would stop and dedicate "training" to stuff involving posture, core strength, flexibility and relaxation. It's not forever. It's until your pain is under control and you can reintroduce "real" training.

I'm frustrated that I don't have a clear direction that would help you. For me, in this issue and others, I got improvement from #1 believing it was possible (please don't give up), and #2 trying to get to the source of it myself, and tackling it from there. Ultimately, I had to figure out my own body and intuit what would help. Pain is a symptom. You may have to go off the beaten path further to get relief. Try to find a practitioner who believes you can find the source and heal, not just mask the pain.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:17 AM   #27
SAHD
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My rib moved in and out under my rib cage for 6 years. You could just push it and it would make a click noise and you could see that it was now moved. I would then tense my stomach and it would make another clicking noise as it popped back into place.

It clicked a lot at first, it was distracting and uncomfortable. It clicked constantly during sex which may make you smile but was very quickly off putting and embarrassing, it caused my diaphragm not to expand correctly on my right side so I could no longer run. During squats, deads and leg press it would click each rep and I would cramp up and leave a bruise so I know it was cutting me inside.

I was given a permanent disability rating but did not have to quit my job or anything but was on restricted duties for 6 months.

It gradually stopped clicking all the time but I could still move it manually with my fingers. Some time a few years later I went to push it in manually and found it no longer moved. I now have no problems with it other than if I try to run I get a cramp on that side after several minutes as I still don't think my diaphragm expands properly.

So it took a long time but finally healed to the point that as long as no big runs are involved or long uphill hard walks then I am fine.

I am telling you all this because the Dr's, and there were numerous because the injury was work related, said they could do nothing for me.

Don't give up hope.

SAHD
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Last edited by SAHD; 04-11-2016 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:19 PM   #28
phrozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
This may not be of any help, but in the event that you can get anything out of it, here goes...

For years I've dealt with a burning/tingling in the area between my spine and scapula, upper/mid back. It flares up from time to time. It's nowhere near as bad as yours. It's very distracting/makes me want to lay down at worst, but that is not the majority of the time, and lately, it's rare for it to get that bad. I've distinctly noticed flareups associated with increased stress, as well as degradation of posture when seated/working at a desk due to fatigue, bad habits, or once again stress. Something that I noticed would consistently flare it up is talking on the phone on that ear (i.e., the changes in posture that would cause, and occasionally an acute offense when I'd hold the phone with my shoulder pinching it to my ear). All these things have in common muscle tension. This may sound crazy (or annoying), but what was recommended to me was meditation. This seemed like bad advice because sitting with perfect posture would aggravate it. But, over time, I think learning how to sit upright properly AND relax (so a balance of tension and relaxation), ultimately has alleviated the symptom. I also never talk on the phone without earbuds if I can help it, and if I don't have them, I'll use the other side. I have no clue what originally caused this issue to occur. It's been as long as I can remember. As for you, you have a hunch about when you fell on the log. If you damaged the joint then (even though you didn't have symptoms immediately or in the way you would've expected), I would try to solve this from the source. I would learn about that part of the body, how it works, how to stabilize it, protect it and give it time to heal. Yours is so progressed, the cortisone may help to get it under control temporarily. You'll have to debunk what you're doing to continue the cycle. We create bad physical habits when we live in chronic pain, and it's a self-defeating cycle. Are you still training hard and heavy? Have you done that throughout this ordeal? If you are, I would stop and dedicate "training" to stuff involving posture, core strength, flexibility and relaxation. It's not forever. It's until your pain is under control and you can reintroduce "real" training.

I'm frustrated that I don't have a clear direction that would help you. For me, in this issue and others, I got improvement from #1 believing it was possible (please don't give up), and #2 trying to get to the source of it myself, and tackling it from there. Ultimately, I had to figure out my own body and intuit what would help. Pain is a symptom. You may have to go off the beaten path further to get relief. Try to find a practitioner who believes you can find the source and heal, not just mask the pain.
Yes I have been lifting hard and heavy the majority of this time and have made insane strides in my physique, but as I get bigger and bigger it seems to affect me more. I have taken over 6 months off and it did nothing....I try and sit with good posture 24/7 because if I don't, the pain increases so it always reminds me. Maybe meditation would help....can I lay down and do that or is sitting important? I'm out of options really. Doctors don't care and apparently the back is a complex mystery that no one wants to solve....

They want me on pain meds and anti inflammatory meds for life, but I refuse to take any. Maybe aside from work and training, i'll just lie on the floor. I'm attempting to learn how to sleep on my back too because I am a side sleeper and that REALLY bothers it. No success yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAHD View Post
My rib moved in and out under my rib cage for 6 years. You could just push it and it would make a click noise and you could see that it was now moved. I would then tense my stomach and it would make another clicking noise as it popped back into place.

It clicked a lot at first, it was distracting and uncomfortable. It clicked constantly during sex which may make you smile but was very quickly off putting and embarrassing, it caused my diaphragm not to expand correctly on my right side so I could no longer run. During squats, deads and leg press it would click each rep and I would cramp up and leave a bruise so I know it was cutting me inside.

I was given a permanent disability rating but did not have to quit my job or anything but was on restricted duties for 6 months.

It gradually stopped clicking all the time but I could still move it manually with my fingers. Some time a few years later I went to push it in manually and found it no longer moved. I now have no problems with it other than if I try to run I get a cramp on that side after several minutes as I still don't think my diaphragm expands properly.

So it took a long time but finally healed to the point that as long as no big runs are involved or long uphill hard walks then I am fine.

I am telling you all this because the Dr's, and there were numerous because the injury was work related, said they could do nothing for me.

Don't give up hope.

SAHD
Is there anything you think that may have specifically caused your issue to go away?
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:12 AM   #29
SAHD
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Honestly no. There was nothing I did that changed it. I exercised etc and I think the scar tissue built up and maybe the bones calcified. I would love an MRI to see what has happened. I do notice that when I get lean my abs are now uneven looking.
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Buck Brannaman.

"It is the certainty of punishment that deters crime, not the severity of it."
'Hanging' Judge PARKER

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Old 04-16-2016, 06:45 PM   #30
jasong
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I've been to three chiros in my area.....trust me I have done everything in my power to help this.....all these chiros did was the same thing.....crack my back...then put me on some electric current machine.....one tried acupuncture on me too......no help what so ever.....maybe these people arent the best at what they do but they were the highest recommended chrio's in my area.


So advice would be amazing. Thanks again
How long did you go to the Chiro before giving up on that? It may take awhile and you may have to keep doing it. It may not solve it either but I'm having issues with my L5, sacrum and a few vertibrae in the C area. Physical therapy was recommended to me and possibly manipulation therapy. I'm going to continue chiro therapy for now just to ensure everything is kept aligned to help keep it healthy.

I don't know if that will be your fix or mine for that matter, but maybe it's something to give an extended time with just in case.

Good luck with it. Back pain sucks, it affects everything.
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Old 04-16-2016, 08:59 PM   #31
phoenix13
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You can meditate laying down. There are times when it's flared up that I can't meditate sitting. I probably shouldn't say "can't", but I sure as hell don't. I have had success by using a pillow as a back support for seated meditation (on a chair, not on the floor - meditating from the floor requires more postural strength than I currently have developed and causes flareup). Start with very short periods. I never did more than 10 min at a time. I also trained myself to sleep on my back. Being flat and letting those muscles relax helps the most for me.

After reading your and SAHD's posts, I am struck by some of the similarities (though my situation isn't as bad as you guys). My ribs are uneven on the side with the issue. I was in a couple accidents as a kid, one which caused bruised ribs, and the other a fall onto my back which caused pain for weeks. Maybe that was the start of it. It hadn't crossed my mind until the last few posts. Bottom line: improving posture, core strength, balance, and the ability to consciously relax has all helped.
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Old 04-17-2016, 05:15 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by jasong View Post
How long did you go to the Chiro before giving up on that? It may take awhile and you may have to keep doing it. It may not solve it either but I'm having issues with my L5, sacrum and a few vertibrae in the C area. Physical therapy was recommended to me and possibly manipulation therapy. I'm going to continue chiro therapy for now just to ensure everything is kept aligned to help keep it healthy.

I don't know if that will be your fix or mine for that matter, but maybe it's something to give an extended time with just in case.

Good luck with it. Back pain sucks, it affects everything.
I went to a few different chiros for years. Did everything they requested. Even tried lazer therapy through them and paid out of my own pocket and got zero results.

I now no longer believe in chiropractics as a science at all. It's all based around subluxation and there is almost zero evidence to back it up. Modern day snake oil salesmen. Not to mention my injury is based around hyper mobility and lax ligaments so the worst thing for me would be manual manipulation. Bottom line is I went to some of the best chiros in my area and not a single one of them could figure out what m issue was or even help me in any way. A hard way to learn that lesson. I believe most people get better in spite of chiropractics, not thanks to it. There are some exceptions like if your chiro is also basically a physiotherapist.

I'm constantly in pain, but I still manage to go to work everyday and train. I was told not to stop exercising because it may cause me to degenerate further(specialist recently said that). She said my costovetebral joint is mildly degenerating and showing signs of hypertrophy so I basically have mild arthritis. But they don't want to fix the mobility issue(because they don't know how) and just want me to get cortisone shots and take meds for life. Super depressing, but I'm not ready to give up yet.

I really appreciate all of the advice, everyone. Honestly it means the world to me that people will take their time to attempt to help me. Thanks again.
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Old 04-17-2016, 05:23 PM   #33
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Wow, ok. Sorry to hear that. My insurance doesn't cover it at all. They do cover manipulation therapy which seems to be the same thing or close to it. I suppose they consider their credentials more legit or something. I'll most likely switch to that once it goes through but trying the chiropractor until then. I want to do everything I can in my case and give it a chance. I hope you get yours figured out and find relief!

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Old 04-18-2016, 08:59 AM   #34
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I think you need to go to another doctor with your MRI. Before starting some treatment, you must me sure in your diagnosis.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:40 PM   #35
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I'll be going to a doctor in the states to try a different type of prolotherapy and maybe some PRP and I am also getting a cortisone shot this week for the first time. I'll keep you all posted and see how it all goes!
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Old 11-28-2016, 01:55 PM   #36
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Nothing worked. Prolo did shit all. Still dying. It is what it is. Just learn to live around the pain
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:39 AM   #37
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I believe I may have figured it all out. I may have an auto immune disease that attacks the spine and can attack other tissues. It's called Ankylosing spondylitis. I haven't been 100% diagnosed yet because it's hard to diagnose. You need to have genetic testing and see a specialist, but we believe that is what I have because I have every symptom.

This might be the end of my bodybuilding. This is pretty serious and can't be cured. Never experienced anything like this. The treatment is just pain management with opiates and anti inflammatories. If anyone has any experience with autoimmune diseases, I would love to hear about it. Thanks
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