Get Adobe Flash player
IntenseMuscle.com
   








Go Back   IntenseMuscle.com > Main Forums > The DOGG Pound

The DOGG Pound The Official Home of DOGGCRAPP Training. Discuss DC training, workouts, concepts and methodology, here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2004, 05:39 PM   #1
bigp3
Light-heavyweight Member
 
bigp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 1,097
bulking for fat boys

First off, if you are someone who does not gain bodyfat even eating big macs five times a day and pounding a pint of chunky monkey right before bedtime to boot, donít read anymore I donít want to waste your time. With that out of the way letís move on.

How do you bulk when your somatotype tends to lean towards the fatboy, endomorph side of the spectrum? This is a tough question and I have learned a lot from the mistakes I have made in the past and I hope to save you some trouble in your quest to get big without becoming a complete lardass. Here are the things that I have found to be critical in my own situation.

1. If you are fat at the current time get yourself under control before you ever consider bulking. Being fat is a vicious cycle, the fatter you are, your body is more proned to becoming even fatter. Fat cells are a nice place for estrogen to hang out in and as we all know estrogen is one of our worst enemies against being lean and defined. If you are currently out of control in the body fat department get it down to at least 9 or 10% before bulking. It will save you in the end from harsh dieting. It has been shown that the leaner you are, the higher the percentage of lean muscle your body ads when bulking. I donít know the exact numbers on this, but I remember reading that people with single digit bodyfat levels tend to gain 80 to 90% of their weight in lean mass when bulking factoring in a proper diet of course. I know this percentage goes up proportionally and is something like 50/50 with people who are over 15% and only gets worse from there.. So first things first,, get your bodyfat in check!!
2. Donít mix carbs with fatsÖ Those of us whom tend to get fat easy are carb sensitive and donít respond well to insulin spikes especially when fats are involved. What happens when you eat carbs with fats? The answer is your body produces an insulin spike and tends to pull the fats more readily into the fat cells than when there is no insulin spike. Keep your meals that are high in carbs as low as possible in fats and this should help stave off fat storage to an extent.
3. Avoid Simple Carbs like the plague. Those of us that are fatboys by nature tend to be way too carb sensitive to be eating meals that contain excess simple carbs. The only exception to this rule would be your post workout shake when you actually want an insulin spike. Ben & Jerryís is not a good bulking food and krispy crŤme is not a macronutrient,,, remember that.
4. Eat clean and eat a lotÖ. Bulking is not an excuse to eat like a pig. I know I love to eat everything in sight and have made this mistake many times. When you get overly fat while bulking you are going to have to trim up at some point and these are the facts boys. When that time comes the more fat you have to lose the more potential there is for muscle loss when dieting. Also, not to mention the fatter you are the longer and harder you are going to have to diet and we know that those of us who are members of the fat boy club hate to diet. One thing I know now after making many mistakes is that I will keep my body within at least 14 weeks striking distance for a show. Anything more than that is a struggle for me to do day in and day out.
5. Try to limit your fats to EFAís as much as possible. I would recommend making sure that at least 50% of your fat intake is from EFAís. EFAís have been shown to have some mechanism in promoting fat metabolism and they also promote heart health. Also, remember not to go to low fat, your body needs the fats in order to repair itself.
6. Donít eat carbs late in the day.. Do not eat carbs before going to bed since this tends to lead elevated blood sugar levels which promote fat storage at night for us fatboys. I try to get as little carbs as possible in my last two meals which are about 4 to 5 hours before bedtime. Your body tends to be more prone towards pushing carbs into the fat cells later in the day since your metabolism is winding down. Also, by not eating carbs late in the day you will deplete your glycogen before bedtime and through the night making your body more receptive to loading up on carbs in the am before working out when you need them.
7. Eat clean foods. Try to limit your intake of garbage foods to once or twice a week if at all. I see a lot of guys saying they are eating 4 chicken breasts a day and getting fat, but they fail to mention these chicken breasts come from KFC. Also, french fries and twinkies are not a good source of quality carbs, lol. Sorry to ruin it for you my friends, but they arenít as I found out the hard way,, lol. A rule of thumb that I heard a nutritionist say one time is to shop the edges. What he meant, was when shopping at the grocery store stay out of the isles. If you think about it, all the clean, good whole foods are on the edges of the market not in the isles. Kind of cool huh? This is a good rule to follow if you have a hard time figuring out what is clean and what is not.
8. Food ratios, Here is what I found works for me, this is not set in stone so do what works for you.
Protein 1.5 to 2 g per lb of body weight
Carbs 1.5 to 2 g per lb of body weight
Fats 0.5 to o.75 g per lb of body weight
bigp3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 05:40 PM   #2
powerforward
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 68
great post thanks.
powerforward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 06:10 PM   #3
youi09
Lightweight Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 291
"It has been shown that the leaner you are, the higher the percentage of lean muscle your body ads when bulking. I donít know the exact numbers on this, but I remember reading that people with single digit bodyfat levels tend to gain 80 to 90% of their weight in lean mass when bulking factoring in a proper diet of course"

That seems to be very true because I remember the first time I dieted down and started bulking my gains were amazing. I was also able to bulk for a much longer time since I was in the single digits like 7-8.
youi09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 07:08 PM   #4
James
Lightweight Member
 
James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: University of New Hamsphire
Posts: 309
Great post, very helpful for us fatties.
James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 08:02 PM   #5
Snap
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 34
Bigp....very helpful post thank you...i'm working hard on getting out of the "fat boys for life club"
Snap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 08:12 PM   #6
bigp3
Light-heavyweight Member
 
bigp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 1,097
It is something that we will always fight with I know I do...
__________________
I do not condone the use of anabolic steroids or any illegal drug, any information discussed is for educational purposes only.

"Every goal has a price if you are willing to pay it"
bigp3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 08:21 PM   #7
Snap
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 34
also....would you consider those ratios to be for maintenance....should i cut back on fats or carbs (besides my carb cutoff) in order to get the bf down
Snap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 08:25 PM   #8
bigp3
Light-heavyweight Member
 
bigp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 1,097
just cut your carbs back if you want to lose the bodyfat,,, I would not mess with the fats so much and make sure you still have the post workout carb intake
__________________
I do not condone the use of anabolic steroids or any illegal drug, any information discussed is for educational purposes only.

"Every goal has a price if you are willing to pay it"
bigp3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2004, 08:30 PM   #9
USMuscle9403
Banned
 
USMuscle9403's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Orangeburg, South Carolina
Posts: 2,204
Remember though, and I said this in another thread, post workout goes down no matter what BUT...not the carb/protein meal one hour later if that one hour post workout comes after 6.
USMuscle9403 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 02:32 PM   #10
Badman
Heavyweight Member
 
Badman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wherever God tells me to go...
Posts: 2,045
Bumping something for endos to know... very good stuff now makes me think my diet is off and is what has been holding me back... Just remember its not the training that holds you back... as long as you are trying to get stronger... and you are not seeing a difference... its all in the nutrition and foods you eat...
__________________
TrueProtein.com
Discount Code: JYN925

The Reaper is always one step behind me..... ( I don't die)
Badman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 02:59 PM   #11
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
great bump, great thread - fatties of the world, let's come together!!!
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 03:06 PM   #12
BiggieSmalls
Bantamweight Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: calgary,canada
Posts: 159
That part at the end about the grocery store is so true I never realized that. Although most stores now have an isle or two for organic stuff. Good post.
__________________
--------------------------------------------

3D: Dedicated, Doggcrapp, Disciple

--------------------------------------------
BiggieSmalls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 03:08 PM   #13
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
i also never thought about it, but the produce, dairy, and meat is along the outside, which are staple items of any muscle building/fat reducing diet.
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 03:20 PM   #14
IronReload 04
Heavyweight Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Posts: 2,392
the only problem with this articles is that in my grocery store, oatmeal is in the isles lol

good article though. reinforces good info
IronReload 04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 05:10 PM   #15
NickD
Bantamweight Member
 
NickD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 154
^^yah and so are nuts, tunafish, rice, olive oil, etc..

I'm sure we're all able take that generalization for what its worth.
NickD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 05:41 PM   #16
IronReload 04
Heavyweight Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Posts: 2,392
i know, im just being difficult
IronReload 04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 06:14 PM   #17
AnyOldIron
Light-heavyweight Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,346
personally I think fatboys should avoid carbs for the most part and eat more fats (all sorts). if you're insulin sensitive then carbs are dangerous - with fats you have no insulin rises.

carbs pre- and post-workout and possibly for breakfast as well to help kickstart the day.

fatboys tend to gain muscle more easily as well so boatloading the carbs might not be as necessary as for skinnier guys.

just my opinion..
AnyOldIron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 06:47 PM   #18
JWangSDC
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
Doesn't this directly contradict Dante's sticky where he tells people to "pay their dues"? The fastest way to get big and lean is to eat everything and become sumo like, then cut down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigp3
First off, if you are someone who does not gain bodyfat even eating big macs five times a day and pounding a pint of chunky monkey right before bedtime to boot, donít read anymore I donít want to waste your time. With that out of the way letís move on.

How do you bulk when your somatotype tends to lean towards the fatboy, endomorph side of the spectrum? This is a tough question and I have learned a lot from the mistakes I have made in the past and I hope to save you some trouble in your quest to get big without becoming a complete lardass. Here are the things that I have found to be critical in my own situation.

1. If you are fat at the current time get yourself under control before you ever consider bulking. Being fat is a vicious cycle, the fatter you are, your body is more proned to becoming even fatter. Fat cells are a nice place for estrogen to hang out in and as we all know estrogen is one of our worst enemies against being lean and defined. If you are currently out of control in the body fat department get it down to at least 9 or 10% before bulking. It will save you in the end from harsh dieting. It has been shown that the leaner you are, the higher the percentage of lean muscle your body ads when bulking. I donít know the exact numbers on this, but I remember reading that people with single digit bodyfat levels tend to gain 80 to 90% of their weight in lean mass when bulking factoring in a proper diet of course. I know this percentage goes up proportionally and is something like 50/50 with people who are over 15% and only gets worse from there.. So first things first,, get your bodyfat in check!!
2. Donít mix carbs with fatsÖ Those of us whom tend to get fat easy are carb sensitive and donít respond well to insulin spikes especially when fats are involved. What happens when you eat carbs with fats? The answer is your body produces an insulin spike and tends to pull the fats more readily into the fat cells than when there is no insulin spike. Keep your meals that are high in carbs as low as possible in fats and this should help stave off fat storage to an extent.
3. Avoid Simple Carbs like the plague. Those of us that are fatboys by nature tend to be way too carb sensitive to be eating meals that contain excess simple carbs. The only exception to this rule would be your post workout shake when you actually want an insulin spike. Ben & Jerryís is not a good bulking food and krispy crŤme is not a macronutrient,,, remember that.
4. Eat clean and eat a lotÖ. Bulking is not an excuse to eat like a pig. I know I love to eat everything in sight and have made this mistake many times. When you get overly fat while bulking you are going to have to trim up at some point and these are the facts boys. When that time comes the more fat you have to lose the more potential there is for muscle loss when dieting. Also, not to mention the fatter you are the longer and harder you are going to have to diet and we know that those of us who are members of the fat boy club hate to diet. One thing I know now after making many mistakes is that I will keep my body within at least 14 weeks striking distance for a show. Anything more than that is a struggle for me to do day in and day out.
5. Try to limit your fats to EFAís as much as possible. I would recommend making sure that at least 50% of your fat intake is from EFAís. EFAís have been shown to have some mechanism in promoting fat metabolism and they also promote heart health. Also, remember not to go to low fat, your body needs the fats in order to repair itself.
6. Donít eat carbs late in the day.. Do not eat carbs before going to bed since this tends to lead elevated blood sugar levels which promote fat storage at night for us fatboys. I try to get as little carbs as possible in my last two meals which are about 4 to 5 hours before bedtime. Your body tends to be more prone towards pushing carbs into the fat cells later in the day since your metabolism is winding down. Also, by not eating carbs late in the day you will deplete your glycogen before bedtime and through the night making your body more receptive to loading up on carbs in the am before working out when you need them.
7. Eat clean foods. Try to limit your intake of garbage foods to once or twice a week if at all. I see a lot of guys saying they are eating 4 chicken breasts a day and getting fat, but they fail to mention these chicken breasts come from KFC. Also, french fries and twinkies are not a good source of quality carbs, lol. Sorry to ruin it for you my friends, but they arenít as I found out the hard way,, lol. A rule of thumb that I heard a nutritionist say one time is to shop the edges. What he meant, was when shopping at the grocery store stay out of the isles. If you think about it, all the clean, good whole foods are on the edges of the market not in the isles. Kind of cool huh? This is a good rule to follow if you have a hard time figuring out what is clean and what is not.
8. Food ratios, Here is what I found works for me, this is not set in stone so do what works for you.
Protein 1.5 to 2 g per lb of body weight
Carbs 1.5 to 2 g per lb of body weight
Fats 0.5 to o.75 g per lb of body weight
JWangSDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 07:26 PM   #19
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWangSDC
Doesn't this directly contradict Dante's sticky where he tells people to "pay their dues"? The fastest way to get big and lean is to eat everything and become sumo like, then cut down?
no, not at all. he says this in that sticky about eating everything and focusing on only muscle and strength gains:

"Then after being at that level for density reasons for awhile, you can slowly take it down and I mean slowly and most likely have the most muscle mass gain your genetics allowed in that time frame. That is the probably the fastest way in the shortest time to get there. But definitely not the most desirable but truth is truth. Am i recommending that approach--HELL NO, but if we are talking about getting this done as fast as humanly possible then I have to be blunt. Noone wants to look like a fat slob even if it means the end result will be much closer to their ideal. "

the point of this thread is to give a heads up to endos/fatties....before they go and pretend they can get away with eating everything, they need to take into consideration what will happen if they do w/ their body type. the "paying your dues" post was focused on the FASTEST possible way to be huge and not the BEST. the best way is to do your cardio, carb cutoffs, etc. the point is to stay fairly lean and gradually build mass at a steady pace.
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 07:28 PM   #20
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
the other point to this thread is no matter who you are, don't think you're doing yourself a favor by "bulking" (god i hate that term) if your bf% is 15-20% or more, because not only will gains be not as efficient, but you'll eventually have to strip all that pudge down eventually.
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 07:45 PM   #21
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike007
No to be a smart ass, but why is the fastest way not the best way? I mean, why take 4 yrs to hit 270 lean when you can do it in 2? I get down right fat in the winter eating junk ontop of my diet and always end up with better gains than my friends who stay lean and eat clean, both in lean mass and strength. Shit, 12 weeks of dieting is worth it if you can endulge the rest of the year and benefit.
that was my interpretation of his post. i see what you mean and you are not a smartass at all. for me being an endo, i would love to be able to eat everything because i'm "building muscle" but the bodyfat gain i would have to deal with would be ridiculous.

i should have never opened my mouth on this one......
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 07:50 PM   #22
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
ok, one more... like the post by dante says: That is the probably the fastest way in the shortest time to get there. But definitely not the most desirable but truth is truth."

ya, making bodyfat not an issue will allow you to be strong as possible and build as much mass as possible, but "Noone wants to look like a fat slob even if it means the end result will be much closer to their ideal. "

when i said best, i meant best with the "bodybuilder mentality" in mind, meaning that bodyfat and appearance matters, and it isn't something that for most is disregarded in the quest to build muscle.
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 07:52 PM   #23
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
and just from my perspective, i would need a lot more than 12 weeks with my body type to be dropping fat if i planned to hold all that muscle. someone with a better metabolism would fare better than myself. everything is individual to each person, based on their bodies and their goals.
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 08:04 PM   #24
dellsguy67
Super-heavyweight Member
 
dellsguy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,261
a good example of blowing off fat gains is a thread started by (i believe) prolangtum....it linked to another board where some guy who was a powerlifter was huge at somewhere in the high 200's or low 300's, and then he dropped from 20-something % bf to single digits and he looked AWESOME - very thick and full - it works to do it that way but not everyone can be happy about it
__________________
To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235
--------------------------------------

SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME
- Sniffy54


--------------------------------------
"Consistency can take you a long way"
- Homonunculus
dellsguy67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2006, 08:10 PM   #25
JWangSDC
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
OP says "It has been shown that the leaner you are, the higher the percentage of lean muscle your body ads when bulking. I donít know the exact numbers on this, but I remember reading that people with single digit bodyfat levels tend to gain 80 to 90% of their weight in lean mass when bulking factoring in a proper diet of course. I know this percentage goes up proportionally and is something like 50/50 with people who are over 15% and only gets worse from there.. So first things first,, get your bodyfat in check!!"


That to me seems to directly contrast the idea that the quickest wa to get and stay huge...is to balloon up to sumo status. This post seems more of a "reality check" type post to me. Something along the lines of "Don't kid yoursef, if you're never willing to go through ridiculously harsh dieting, than getting huge the fast way is not the way for you."



Quote:
Originally Posted by dellsguy67
no, not at all. he says this in that sticky about eating everything and focusing on only muscle and strength gains:

"Then after being at that level for density reasons for awhile, you can slowly take it down and I mean slowly and most likely have the most muscle mass gain your genetics allowed in that time frame. That is the probably the fastest way in the shortest time to get there. But definitely not the most desirable but truth is truth. Am i recommending that approach--HELL NO, but if we are talking about getting this done as fast as humanly possible then I have to be blunt. Noone wants to look like a fat slob even if it means the end result will be much closer to their ideal. "

the point of this thread is to give a heads up to endos/fatties....before they go and pretend they can get away with eating everything, they need to take into consideration what will happen if they do w/ their body type. the "paying your dues" post was focused on the FASTEST possible way to be huge and not the BEST. the best way is to do your cardio, carb cutoffs, etc. the point is to stay fairly lean and gradually build mass at a steady pace.
JWangSDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:32 PM.






Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Indexed by Enginuity