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Old 06-18-2012, 09:24 PM   #1
big ross
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Knee pain/collapsing

This had been a new development as I've been gaining weight and strength. Few weeks ago I played first league game of basketbAll and both knees were killing me after. Few days later my left knee started hurting on the outside with certain movements. I foam rolled IT band a ton thinking it was runners knee when I noticed my the very large tendon, running laterally on the back of leg an feels like it inserts on the head of my fibula, is stupid inflamed. The tendon is very tight and doesn't seem I be loosening up (2 weeks later).
The primary movements that hurt are flexing at the knee and rotating the lower leg out (believe internal rotation at the knee is te anatomical term). Also hurts te most when I attempt to track the knee laterally. When I squat or do step ups or just about anything where the knee moves it wants to collapse medially.
I've been trying to figure this out with my own research and looked through my anatomy book but have no real answers. Any pointers or ideas are welcome. Also, I am not stupid, I should go to the doctor but I am saving that as a last resort if things don't improve.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:32 PM   #2
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Is this what you are referring to?
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If your family was captured and you were told you needed to put 100 pounds onto your max squat within two months or your family would be executed, would you squat once per week? Something tells me that you'd start squatting every day. Other countries have this mindset. America does not.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:58 PM   #3
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No I can track it up to my mid thigh. It runs continous with the common peroneal nerve. I'm having trouble attaching pictures from my phone. Easiest was is to bend the knee at 40 degrees and feeling the large tendon on the lateral side of the back of your leg. My bad knee has it super inflamed compared to te other.
http://motionworks.patientsites.com/..._anatomy02.jpg
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:44 PM   #4
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Ok it feels like it is the biceps femoris tendon but my symptoms are consistent with the popliteus strain. Thank you for bringing up that little bastard, forgot all about him. Makes sense that I'm carrying more weight and played full court bball or the first time in months.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:15 PM   #5
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Ok do it's been a month and hasn't completely gone away. I had my g/f do a ghetto McMurray test and it looks like I have some issues with my left lateral meniscus. I have a doctor appointment on the 6th. I have limited ROM and it clicks but it's very manageable. I squatted 425 easy as pie last week for a 20 lb PR and can do everything. Should I shut it down till the doctors appointment (g/f wants me to do this) keep doing what I'm doing (am I susceptible to ACL or major tears).
Wondering if anybody has a lateral meniscus tear and if my symptoms sound similar. Seems like mixed reviews on surgery for it do I'm wondering what other people have done with this injury.
Sorry for the jumbled ramblin but cell phone typing makes it more difficult.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:20 PM   #6
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Well this has been persistent for a very long time. I got an MRI months ago and very was ok inside. After doctor and MRI I got no answers.
Today I went to a chiro to see what he thought and it turns out my pelvis is out of wack, my SI joint is dysfunctional, and my right leg is shorter than my left (painful knee).
Anybody with experience and insight on this sort of injury or dysfunction?
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:55 PM   #7
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Well this has been persistent for a very long time. I got an MRI months ago and very was ok inside. After doctor and MRI I got no answers.
Today I went to a chiro to see what he thought and it turns out my pelvis is out of wack, my SI joint is dysfunctional, and my right leg is shorter than my left (painful knee).
Anybody with experience and insight on this sort of injury or dysfunction?
Weakness and imbalances in hip strength and stability is a common component in low back pain, knee pain, and other lower leg injuries. While I'm not a doctor, nor would want to make a diagnosis based on what you've said, to start some dynamic postural assessments like a single leg squat and an overhead squat assessment might show some potential dysfunction and imbalances. Also, adding some core stability work will help with proprioception and neuromuscular control. The same can be true with the addition of some balance stabilization work for the lower body. Also, adding exercises from a single leg stance like split squats, bulgarian split squats, skater squats, bowler squats, pistol squats, lunges, etc. can help lengthen the hip flexors and improve gluteal function. Adding plenty of glute activation work would be good like varying glute bridges, hip thrusts, hip external rotation, hip abduuction, band walking, etc. Making sure you are training in all planes of motion (sagittal, transverse, and frontal), most strength exercises are predominantly done in the sagittal plane with flexion and extension. Making sure you are doing the majority of your work as ground based versus isolation exercises or machine exercises. Using a quality warm up that consists of a dynamic warmup, foam rolling and/or getting some tissue care for tight/overactive areas, static stretching tight/overactive muscles, and doing core stabilization work and activations prior to any strength training each day. Those are just some general recommendations.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Knickerbocker24 View Post
Weakness and imbalances in hip strength and stability is a common component in low back pain, knee pain, and other lower leg injuries. While I'm not a doctor, nor would want to make a diagnosis based on what you've said, to start some dynamic postural assessments like a single leg squat and an overhead squat assessment might show some potential dysfunction and imbalances. Also, adding some core stability work will help with proprioception and neuromuscular control. The same can be true with the addition of some balance stabilization work for the lower body. Also, adding exercises from a single leg stance like split squats, bulgarian split squats, skater squats, bowler squats, pistol squats, lunges, etc. can help lengthen the hip flexors and improve gluteal function. Adding plenty of glute activation work would be good like varying glute bridges, hip thrusts, hip external rotation, hip abduuction, band walking, etc. Making sure you are training in all planes of motion (sagittal, transverse, and frontal), most strength exercises are predominantly done in the sagittal plane with flexion and extension. Making sure you are doing the majority of your work as ground based versus isolation exercises or machine exercises. Using a quality warm up that consists of a dynamic warmup, foam rolling and/or getting some tissue care for tight/overactive areas, static stretching tight/overactive muscles, and doing core stabilization work and activations prior to any strength training each day. Those are just some general recommendations.
Ok I have a nice case study for you my knee hurts when I sit at 90, feet on the floor, and I externally rotate at the hip. Sometimes it hurts with maximal knee flexion. Basketball will leave me sore for days.

I read he glute stuff before and find this funny. When I do a cook lift my right hammy will cramp Everytime but no knee pain. My left leg will wobble and start to hurt at the fibular head. It doesn't I did X band walks today and my glute med was on fire after less than 10 steps.

Now I mentioned the imbalance on my two sides. My right posterior upper body is completely tensed compared to my left side. My quadratic lumborum feels like a piece of wood on that side.

My chiro believes that the hypertonicity of my right side has my pelvis shifted and my left side is trying to compensate. He thinks I'm pinching a nerve with movement there when my lower back is inflamed.

I do not know how to tackle the long list of problems I have. You mentioned OH squat, can't even get halfways there. Minimal Tspine mobility. My left lower body is decently flexible besides my hammy which is much less than my right.

I'm super asymmetrical from poor technique, never stretching for 10 years, and having lipomas on my right shoulder/forearm. Well that's what I'm working with, I feel good besides the left knee but I feel like I'm a ticking time bomb with all my mobility an asymmetry issues.

If it helps at all I'm 6' 240, squat 455 and DL 565. I f
ancy myself an athlete and this is sucking ass.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:01 PM   #9
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Ok I have a nice case study for you my knee hurts when I sit at 90, feet on the floor, and I externally rotate at the hip. Sometimes it hurts with maximal knee flexion. Basketball will leave me sore for days.

I read he glute stuff before and find this funny. When I do a cook lift my right hammy will cramp Everytime but no knee pain. My left leg will wobble and start to hurt at the fibular head. It doesn't I did X band walks today and my glute med was on fire after less than 10 steps.

Now I mentioned the imbalance on my two sides. My right posterior upper body is completely tensed compared to my left side. My quadratic lumborum feels like a piece of wood on that side.

My chiro believes that the hypertonicity of my right side has my pelvis shifted and my left side is trying to compensate. He thinks I'm pinching a nerve with movement there when my lower back is inflamed.

I do not know how to tackle the long list of problems I have. You mentioned OH squat, can't even get halfways there. Minimal Tspine mobility. My left lower body is decently flexible besides my hammy which is much less than my right.
To be honest, your condition is more complicated than any strength coach is qualified to handle, myself included. We recognize postural and movement dysfunction and use corrective exercise and flexibility work to fix the issues. However, we are not qualified to diagnose injury and lack clinical experience. Your best bet is read about your conditions and ask your doctor and therapist a lot of questions. Are you going to physical therapy and if so what is your PT saying?

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I'm super asymmetrical from poor technique, never stretching for 10 years
I think you hit the nail on the head here. Why did you ignore assymetries and a lack of flexibility as these years?

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If it helps at all I'm 6' 240, squat 455 and DL 565. I fancy myself an athlete and this is sucking ass.
As you're beginning to see, these numbers although certainly respectable strength numbers don't mean squat if you can't move and are in pain. I think it's valuable, especially as you age, to consider risk versus reward when it comes to heavy lifting. There is a point when it's no longer in your best interest to continue to move heavier loads. The benefit of moving a few extra pounds isn't worth the risk of potential injury. You can likely get the same training effect with a lower load. And, mobility, a lack of stability, and muscular imbalance can be just as much as a limiting factor to strength numbers as max strength is. Because if you can't hold positions and stabilize the joints it doesn't really matter how much the prime movers can move...it's a recipe for injury.

I wish I could be more helpful for you. I wanted to provide some feedback to the thread since no one was helping, but you are beyond my skill base. You need clinical/medical assistance. Good luck and feel free to keep me posted on the thread with what your doctor, PT, and chiro are saying and I will do my best to add anything I can.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:14 PM   #10
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Nah you're fine my man. Do you have any good stretches for the lower back, internal hip rotation an external hip rotation.

I was on the whole flex/muscle and fitness till 3 years or so ago. Stretching never came up. Also I didn't tend to feel anything till I got into the 220's. after 23 I realized I'm not a teen and I have to really be careful. Was just a bit too late. I've got a Kin background and am one year from my masters in occupational therapy, I have a decent idea on what I should have done and where I should be at. Just problems on how to get there.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:22 PM   #11
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I'm actually planning on doing yoga and bodyweight work for the next couple of weeks till some of these issues are resolved. Sucks because I love lifting heavy.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:42 PM   #12
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Nah you're fine my man. Do you have any good stretches for the lower back, internal hip rotation an external hip rotation.
Sorry for all the UMaine stretches, but I love seeing him make funny faces. To stretch the hip ADDuctors I'd recommend one of the following
kneeling split stance adductor mobs
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

wall adductor stretch
you can also do these with a stability ball
[YOUTUBE]http://umaine.edu/athletics-strength/files/2012/02/pb-wall-bent-knee-active-iso.mov[/YOUTUBE]
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

band hip adductor stretch - sorry for the lameness of this stretch but I think you get the idea
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

six point hip
[YOUTUBE]http://umaine.edu/athletics-strength/files/2012/02/6-point-hip.mov[/YOUTUBE]

For you ABductors I'd recommend one of the follwing...
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

seated 90/90 stretch
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

active iso cross glute
[YOUTUBEhttp://umaine.edu/athletics-strength/files/2012/02/active-iso-cross-glute.mov][/YOUTUBE]
bench cross glute
[YOUTUBE]http://umaine.edu/athletics-strength/files/2012/02/bench-cross-glute.mov[/YOUTUBE]

When it comes to stretching the low back it's really contraindicated. To quote Stu McGill "Flexion and rotational stretching overloads the annulus fibers often exacerbating the spinal tissues which can occur unbeknownst to the individual." Even though it feels good, the perceived stretch via the stretch receptors provide the illusion of something helpful, but it's not reality. Solomonow showed through a couple of studies in 2003 and 2008 that static stretching of the lumbar spine ligaments cause muscle spasms and diminishes the stretch reflex which is a protective mechanism we want. The goal with the lumbar spine is to stabilize it while gaining strength, flexibility, and stability of the surrounding musculature like the hips...for you mostly hip flexibility I'd think.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:43 PM   #13
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Sorry, some of the Umaine videos didn't work...forgot they're not youtube. Just copy and paste the link from in between the youtube hashes into your web browser.

Meant to include this one as well...lying hip internal rotation
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

Last edited by Knickerbocker24; 02-08-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:54 PM   #14
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Thanks you very much for the articles. The 90/90 stretches are damn near impossible for my right leg, who'd figure I have no pain on this side. I'm gonna be hammering away at these. The lower back is funny. I've been rolling and lax balling it like crazy but whenever you think of actual stretches there's not much there. I like the McGill quote, I should have bought the book 3 years ago when I was first looking into the low back pain.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:12 PM   #15
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I like the McGill quote, I should have bought the book 3 years ago when I was first looking into the low back pain.
Both of his texts are great, but he's a little long winded...maybe it's a Canadian thing. Sometimes I wish he would cut to the chase and just give the programming suggestions, but both books definitely have a lot of quality info with a lot good supporting research.
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