Idead on a refeed/cheet day

[EBA84]

I personally don't drop protein on refeed days. I still want high quality protein in addition to the carbs I am taking in.

[bhman6]

I just make sure to use the leanest protein sources but I also don't lower the amount to any significant degree

[Ken Skip Hill]

I don't, either. Lower the fat but the protein stays the same. Sometimes I will get guys that are closer to a show and when I find out what they are doing it reads like a plan for NASA launching a rocket. Sometimes, the plans are so complicated that I have to read them over and over to really get the gist of what they are doing and/or trying to accomplish. I don't mean this as people are stupid but rather they tend to overcomplicate a lot of things that just don't need to be overcomplicated.

Skip

[squatrack]

I don't, either. Lower the fat but the protein stays the same. Sometimes I will get guys that are closer to a show and when I find out what they are doing it reads like a plan for NASA launching a rocket. Sometimes, the plans are so complicated that I have to read them over and over to really get the gist of what they are doing and/or trying to accomplish. I don't mean this as people are stupid but rather they tend to overcomplicate a lot of things that just don't need to be overcomplicated.

Skip

i think that statement carries over into every realm of bodybuilding!:frusty:

[MilitaryMuscle]

im a bit curious..... this is my second time "refueling".... i planned on putting down 1200 carbs but im still hungry as hell and dont seem full. Is hunger any indication on fullness? I mean fullness by meaning glycogen levels obviousley if im hungry im not full! Dont mean to sound stupid im just new at this shit. Basically i just dont want to sell myself short or overdo it to badly. I just dont know how to gage when enough or what is to little. Im not trying to be perfect or overcomplicate anything.... basically what im asking are there any good indicators?

[pitbulladams]

What are the best choices in food on a refeed day then ?

PB

[pitbulladams]

Also getting closer to a show do any of you

Increase days between each load

lower carbs consumed on load

Drop load day


PB

[bulletproof]

Yeah read it through couple of times very helpful, but it does state some fructose can aid in the process as to replenish the liver pre carb loading.

As i find fruit easy on my digestion was considering running them through the load.

But am i not correct in thinking fruit is not purely fructose ?

Think i remember reading an article in regards to the ripness of a bannana effects its ratio of glucose/fructose ?

PB

I am sure one of the pros will chime in here with there experience but I would not load up too much on fruit. Fructose is used easier by the liver and adipose tissue (to convert to triglyceride). The average sized liver can store about 2-3 pieces of fruit (50-75 grams of fructose) per day (IIRC) and if the liver is filled it will get dumped back into the blood stream and reused as energy or if calories are in excess be converted to fat. You might want to try and eat a piece or 2 since that will help shift the body into anabolism and preferably in the morning and keep the rest of the meals liquid high GI (preferably 1,4 and 1,6 alpha bonds which would be dextrose, WM and even maltodextrin) carbs along with solid food sources that are high GI too. I say this becasue I just got done discussing the whole fructose/liver/adipose tissue thing with my biochem professor a couple hours ago.

just my 2 cents

[EBA84]

What are the best choices in food on a refeed day then ?

PB

I use all medium to high glycemic.

[EBA84]

Also getting closer to a show do any of you

Increase days between each load

lower carbs consumed on load

Drop load day


PB

Actually the days between each load tend to decrease and the carbs on the refeed day increase as a I get closer to a show. I only have refeed days when I think I need them. I just listen to what my body and the mirror is saying.

[pitbulladams]

I use all medium to high glycemic.

Like ?

We talking carb drinks, low fat pancakes syrup, rice pudding, kiddies cereal etc..

PB

[bhman6]

yeah you got the idea

I love using lucky charms and frosted flakes and french toast made out of ezekiel bread with real maple syrup

[EBA84]

Like ?

We talking carb drinks, low fat pancakes syrup, rice pudding, kiddies cereal etc..

PB

Any of these will work. I personally use breakfast bars, low fat waffles and white pasta. White pasta really works well with me.

[Dean3228]

I understand that the heavy (1000+) refeed carbs are being used to replenish glycogen stores in the muscle fibers and liver (correct?). Anybody have an idea how much you can force before you get back into layering on the bodyfat?

[wakejump4me]

I understand that the heavy (1000+) refeed carbs are being used to replenish glycogen stores in the muscle fibers and liver (correct?). Anybody have an idea how much you can force before you get back into layering on the bodyfat?

22. Acheson KJ. Nutritional influences on lipogenesis and thermogenesis after a carbohydrate meal. Am J Physiol (1984) 246: E62-E70.

23. Shah M and Garg A. High-fat and high-carbohydrate diets and energy balance. Diabetes Care (1996) 19: 1142-1152.

24. Hellerstein M. Synthesis of fat in response to alterations in diet: insights from new stable isotope methodologies. Lipids (1996) 31 (suppl) S117-S125.
25. Jebb SA et. al. Changes in macronutrient balance during over- and underfeeding assessed by 12-d continuous whole body calorimetry. Am J Clin Nutr (1996) 64: 259-266.



Fat gain during the carb-up

During the first 24 hours of the carb-load, caloric intake will be approximately twice maintenance levels. This raises concerns regarding the potential for fat gain during this time period. We will see that fat gain during the carb-up should be minimal as long as a few guidelines are followed.
In a study which looked surprisingly like a CKD, subjects consumed a low-carb, high fat (but non-ketogenic) diet for 5 days and depleted muscle glycogen with exercise (22). Subjects were then given a total 500 grams of carbohydrate in three divided meals. During the first 24 hours, despite the high calorie (and carb) intake, there was a negative fat balance of 88 grams.
preferentially to refill glycogen stores, and fat continues to be used for energy production.
Additionally, the excess carbohydrates which were not stored as glycogen were used for energy (22). In general, the synthesis of fat from glycogen (referred to as de novo lipogenesis) in the short term is fairly small (23,24). During carbohydrate overfeeding, there is a decrease in fat use for energy. Most fat gain occurring during high carbohydrate overfeeding is from storage of
excessive fat intake (25). Therefore, as long as fat intake is kept relatively low (below 88 grams) during the carb-up phase of the CKD, there should be minimal fat regain.
In a similar study, individuals consumed a low-carb, high fat diet for 5 days and then consumed very large amounts of carbohydrates (700 to 900 grams per day) over a five day period. During the first 24 hours, with a carbohydrate intake of 700 grams and a fat intake of 60 grams per day, there was a fat gain of only 7 grams. Collectively, these two studies suggest that the body continues to use bodyfat for fuel during the first 24 hours of carb-loading.


wake