Waxy Maize

[Quad]

Is this something a person who is carb sentitive can use. I've used maltodextrin before and I always worry about it. I gain fat easily.
What are your thoughts on this??

Quad

[eggwhites]

How's WM's Glycemic Index? Or do you feel that does not matter? I'm asking to see if WM is a good carb choice for regular meals (Non post workout).

[Doggcrapp]

There isnt a glycemic response, its not a mode of action derived by an insulin spike

[tpc]

This is what I was meaning, Diezel. It hits you so fast that it is almost like you are slightly HYPERglycemic and that is not something that alot of people (at least I am not, anyway) used to feeling. Also, I use the stuff (and used vitargo) by itself. I wouldn't combine it with anything at all because I am not convinced yet that other things don't slow it down. I use it by itself and then after the gut empties I have my protein, CEE, etc.. I do the same before meals. I don't combine it with anything. Now, if DC or anyone else can make me believe that it doesn't slow down with other things being added to it, I will consider changing my protocol. I want to maximize endogenous insulin levels now that I am Mr. clean guy.

Skip

i will try my best at describing my personal beliefs about WMS (waxy maize starch) from personal experience as well as research i have done on the subject. WMS really is an extremely unique substance and works on a very different mechanism to the usual malt/dex carbohydrate mix, especially dealing with its response with insulin. most think a higher rate of absorption/assimilation/digestion takes more insulin or a greater insulin response to shuttle nutrients and to replenish glycogen stores, i think WMS is going to prove this wrong. WMS is very different, hence why many have been using this stuff while dieting and not getting the usual dex/malt spill over or bloat many people experience.

WMS differs from malt or dex (especially dex) in 2 main ways... WMS has a significantly greater molecular weight and lower osmolarity of the 2. without going into the science of john dalton, molecular mass, or osmotic pressure, what do these 2 main details mean to us, athletes...

first because of the greater molecular weight, WMS has the ability to quickly bypass much of the harsh digestion process in the stomach and go to the intestines (ileum) for immediate absorption. "yeah so what..." well in theory, this allows this complex carbohydrate to stay in long chain polymer form before being broken down or digested after it has crossed the intestinal wall. which in turn causes a low glycemic response as these polymer chains are virtually untouched as they are still in tact before the stomach had time to break them down and are broken down at a much lower rate. with malt or dex, their glycemic response is very high. dex is basically pure glucose, so the obvious spike in insulin is evident, but even though malt is considered a complex carb, it is broken down extremely fast and causes a very quick spike in insulin.

second, the low osmolarity of this substance makes WMS highly absorbable driving itself across the intestinal wall and into the bloodstream. This low osmolarity allows substance to reach the muscle cells quickly.

i personally believe these 2 actions will increase absorption of many other supplemental aides by signifcant numbers. first the ability of WMS to allow substances to bypass much of the stomachs harsh acids is huge. many substances, like creatines, amino acids, etc. can sit in these acidic environments and degrade and make them useless. and second the low osmolarity of WMS has the ability to take other materials across the intestinal wall fairly easy (absorption) and then materials are driven to various cells (assimilation) to take on their action. i really believe you are going to see WMS in the future as the next "transport system" not only for creatine but for many other aides, and it doesn't work on the high insulin response mechanism for absorption either, which is a plus.

many are talking about "feeling" WMS and mistaking it as a hypoglycemic response. i can not say really what it is from a personal or from med-line searches, but it feels like a hypoglycemic episode is about to happen, but it never really quite takes you to being hypo. it is strange really, i have made myself hypo countless times usually from the over use of ALA and dextrose so i know the feeling. something else is happing here, as the insulin response to WMS is fairly low. i guess only time will tell as well as new theories will arise to what it is.

ok, i have rambled enough. as soon as our new site is up and our article section gets wrapped up, i know dante and i are going to go into great detail and study with WMS. it really is a unique and new substance (well at least how we are using it) so discussion and personal experience is important. we love to hear your opinions and thoughts about this material...

doug

[tpc]

double post

[Ken Skip Hill]

Great post. I will have to pay even closer attention and try to figure out why I am getting the response I am getting from it.

Also, just thinking out loud but imagine the effect of this stuff if there was some way *cough* to get this into your system when insulin levels WERE high. Holy shit.....

Skip

[zed]

what does 'hypo' feel like? or does it only concern people who 'supplement' with a certain something?

[wakejump4me]

Also, just thinking out loud but imagine the effect of this stuff if there was some way *cough* to get this into your system when insulin levels WERE high. Holy shit.....

Skip

all i am thinking about this .....is.... and then..........:bb: ....and then.........:flypig:

wake

[Doggcrapp]

Skip, doug and I know exactly what you are talking about. The very first time we took it we both were feeling like we were going to go hypo--in fact it hit us both at the same time (minutes later).....but we didnt go hypo......we theorize because this stuff loads so damn fast that it hits you with a bang. Im sitting here typing this and i just took my postworkout shake with waxy maize in it and Im experiencing those feelable seeable effects again minutes later. I could go into great detail with it but I sure as hell dont want to sound like a Bill Phillips "feels like deca" statement. Doug and I are geeked about this supplement because we feel it holds the key to unlocking some doors that made some other supplements less potent in the past.

On a side note--i just made the easiest shake i made so far with the waxy maize and i took some of skips advice

this time i started off with 2 cups of water in the blender and got it moving on the lowest setting---and then while the water was churning i put in 2 scoops of waxy maize and it instantly went into liquid--then i added all my other ingredients I put in my postworkout shake (4 scoops of protein powder and my other supps i add in my postworkout shakes) and it was easy as pie--only used 2 cups of water and drank it down (used bsl chocolate and the only difference is it just tasted like a thicker shake)

[DIEZEL666]

Dante,

If I was going to order the waxy maize along with my protein, would I be better off using the discount code or the special offer for the maize? Thanks.

[tpc]

Dante,

If I was going to order the waxy maize along with my protein, would I be better off using the discount code or the special offer for the maize? Thanks.

depends on how big your order is... 5% off of a small order like 50.00 is only 2.50. the WMS deal is pretty good though...

doug

[PTAaron]

This may be overanalyzing a bit... but if you normally take in solid food along with your post workout shake - would you want to have that before or after the shake with WMS in it?
My thought is after, so it doesn't interfere with the "pass through" of the WMS - but I want to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly.

[DIEZEL666]

There isnt a glycemic response, its not a mode of action derived by an insulin spike

Does this mean that since there is no insulin response that this is a carb you could take prior to cardio with no adverse effect on fat burning?

[Doggcrapp]

Im kind of not understanding the question.

a)I should be more clear though here------there is an insulin response to waxy maize as there is with just about any food but it is very very minute

b)if fatburning is the priority with what your after with cardio then loading up your glycogen stores beforehand isnt something I think you would want to be doing

[Doggcrapp]

I want to take care of the doggpound guys with this and I guess I want you guys to try this stuff because its potent and its going to help you along with your muscle mass gains.

Equation: I know this stuff works extremely well=DC training guys start using it in their postworkout mixes and to gain weight in their shakes (with little insulin surge to worry about)=rapid muscle mass gains for everyone in the Doggpound=makes me and DC training look good because people are gaining even faster than normal.

So again I want to take care of the longtime Doggpound guys because thats where my loyalty is at. For the rest of the month of april starting thursday the 20th if you put your regular order in or an order in at trueprotein for protein (or whatever supplements you buy from us), put the following in the comments box on the last page when ordering "Dante is going to give me a free LB of waxy maize to try out", then email me at [email protected] and say "hey dante this is (example) Bigdaddy from Intensemuscle, my order number is (example) 2001873"

and thats all you need to do--Ill take care of the rest and I'll make sure you get a LB free of waxy maize starch to try out for yourself on my dollar.

a)This is for doggpound and intensemuscle members only!!!
b)If you dont have a screen name or at least 50 posts on this board, then you dont get this deal. This is my way of taking care of the DC and Intensemuscle crew. And Im going to check screen names and post counts to make sure someone is legit.