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Old 05-11-2015, 08:05 PM   #1
fireguy10720
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Hemacromatosis??

So a little history.
I'm on trt doc prescribed 125mg a week .
I've been battling with my Hct levels for the last 8 months.
They're running in the mid 56's with this latest test from Saturday at 56.9.
My doc has had me on and off trt back and forth for about 6 months now trying to figure it out.
I give blood they drop, last time to 52, then I was told to start trt again.
Well now today I was told to stop again because they're back up! Frustrating! !
She says to stop trt answer she wants to test me for hemacromatosis because of my elevated Blood levels.
Also because I've always had elevated liver function tests too, which I guess is another sign of hemacromatosis.
What do you guys who've delt with trt, and possibly trt and whacky blood numbers think?

I HATE stopping trt too, I feel like a fat bag of ass!!
I've had 3 vials of test that I've been wanting to hit and run 600-700mg of test for over half a year now that I haven't touched dealing with this.

I'm ready to say the hell with it and just run the test.
This back and forth crap is killing me.
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:38 AM   #2
Ken "Skip" Hill
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I was waiting for someone else to respond because you and I have spoken about this before. I just think it sucks how some people can run a lot of test and their numbers barely elevate and then others can run small doses like yourself and the numbers are through the roof.

Skip
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:45 AM   #3
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It's such a pain in the ass! !

The ups and downs are the worst! I feel pretty decent even just at test of 150mg a week. But then to keep dropping to nothing it's terrible.
She's going to test me for this hemacromatosis crap, but either way I'm still trying to get her to prescribe plebotomy for me because it always works to lower my levels, but then they just come back up.
But maybe if I could donate monthly it would help keep them down?
I don't know?
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:16 PM   #4
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You're gonna love this.
My doctor put in a request with bonfils to allow more frequent blood donations.
Bonfils called me today, I've now been banned for life from donating blood with bonfils! !

What the hell do I do now about lowering my blood values? ?
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:57 PM   #5
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LOL

Bonfils is a douche patrol. They need blood so bad to save lives and they hound you about donating ... until they find out you have taken trt. lol

My endo says that giving blood doesn't do much of anything to lower blood volume and rarely prescribes it. I don't know how much truth there is to it but that is what he says.

Skip
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:16 PM   #6
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Some info on finding a center that permits therapeutic phlebotomy and its use in hemochromatosis (and polycythemia).

http://www.pvreporter.com/blood-cent...ients-can-use/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3934278/

-S
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:14 PM   #7
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Thanks Doc Scott.

What's your thoughts on why it's so high?
Could it be strictly from the Trt?
Even though I've only been on 100mg a week?
Last bloods I gave had my HCT at 56.9 and my test levels were only 656.
If it is the testosterone by itself causing this, then what? Live with zero testosterone levels for the rest of my life?
My doctor is zero help, very frustrating!!
I can't believe I got freaking banned from bonfils!
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
LOL

Bonfils is a douche patrol. They need blood so bad to save lives and they hound you about donating ... until they find out you have taken trt. lol

My endo says that giving blood doesn't do much of anything to lower blood volume and rarely prescribes it. I don't know how much truth there is to it but that is what he says.

Skip

Then what is there for lowering blood volume?
I was running steady in the mid 56's HCT level for months, then donated and dropped to 49.
6 weeks later in back at 56.9 now.
So where do I go now?

SO FRUSTRATED! !
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homonunculus View Post
Some info on finding a center that permits therapeutic phlebotomy and its use in hemochromatosis (and polycythemia).

http://www.pvreporter.com/blood-cent...ients-can-use/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3934278/

-S


Unfortunately the places it lists for Colorado areas is bonfils, which apparently I'm banned from now
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireguy10720 View Post
Thanks Doc Scott.

What's your thoughts on why it's so high?
Could it be strictly from the Trt?
Even though I've only been on 100mg a week?
Last bloods I gave had my HCT at 56.9 and my test levels were only 656.
If it is the testosterone by itself causing this, then what? Live with zero testosterone levels for the rest of my life?
My doctor is zero help, very frustrating!!
I can't believe I got freaking banned from bonfils!
You'll have to have the bloodwork to get a diagnosis. (I can't do that anyway...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireguy10720 View Post
Unfortunately the places it lists for Colorado areas is bonfils, which apparently I'm banned from now
I don't know the legal in's and out's of this, but it seems pretty damn bizarre that they can turn you away after a prescribed doctor's order.

(Simply having phlebotomy done does not mean that that blood needs to be donated. You're there b/c you have a medical need, per your doctor, to be phlebotomized, not to actually donate blood per se...)

-S
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireguy10720 View Post
Then what is there for lowering blood volume?
I was running steady in the mid 56's HCT level for months, then donated and dropped to 49.
6 weeks later in back at 56.9 now.
So where do I go now?

SO FRUSTRATED! !
If you got a drop like that from donating, then you definitely need to figure out where you can donate. That is quite a dramatic change. I would not have a change like that. Mine were very subtle and hardly changed.

I am just going by what my endo told me. i am not sure that I believe it or not but that is what he told me and it did seem to jive with my results, anyway.

Skip
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireguy10720 View Post
Then what is there for lowering blood volume?
I was running steady in the mid 56's HCT level for months, then donated and dropped to 49.
6 weeks later in back at 56.9 now.
So where do I go now?

SO FRUSTRATED! !
If this is true, see a GP to get a phlebotomy... with levels like that I don't see why the doc wouldn't write the script for it...
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:12 PM   #13
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The more I think about it, I think you are only banned from DONATING blood. I think Bonfils will still take your blood and discard it but that costs 150 a pop, I believe. I was going to do that until my endo told me that my situation didn't warrant it.

Skip
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:40 PM   #14
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Yes, exactly skip.
I can pay $150 each time and they will draw and toss it. I looked into it today.
I just can't afford that! !
I really can't. Checked my BP before leaving work this morning because I've been getting bloody noses every morning for the last week also.
It's high for me.
I have always been 120's over 80.
This morning it was 144/88.

F-ing doctors
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Old 05-15-2015, 12:03 AM   #15
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I highly highly highly urge you to try the following

20mg of testosterone subcutaneous in lower ab fat with insulin needle every other day

take 1500-3000mg of IP6 a day
Dramatically lower your red meat intake and make sure you are taking nothing (and I mean nothing) that is fortified with iron...
Either drink a good amount green tea or take green tea capsules every day split in divided dosages 2-3 times a day.

Do daily cardio if you can for 45-60 minutes<---do you know who never has high hemoglobin and hematocrit? Cardio fit athletes don't...FACT....any cardio elite athlete with have lower scale hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Women lose iron in their monthly period...men don't and store iron....iron overload is brutal on your body...(hence why I want you taking phytic acid IP6) to chelate the iron out of your body.

Is there some thing you probably don't want to do here? Lower red meat intake and a lot of cardio? Yea...but do you want to keep on TRT or a lil higher? Then you are going to have to do them......

a lot of literature shows with larger weekly shots that your hematocrit and hemoglobin dramatically rise while small every other day shots keep it more under control

do that plan and test out your H+H.....if it proves out to be 45-52.....hopefully more 45-50.....try out 30mg every other day.....<-----trust me on this...get off the milligram add up method.....steady every other day lower mg injections create levels that human bodies seem to utilize better<---im asking you to trust me on this.

what is the alternative? Getting off.

I think youll see 6 weeks down the road that your gains are even better with 20-30mg every other day than they were with the big 150mg shot once a week
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggcrapp View Post
I highly highly highly urge you to try the following

20mg of testosterone subcutaneous in lower ab fat with insulin needle every other day

take 1500-3000mg of IP6 a day
Dramatically lower your red meat intake and make sure you are taking nothing (and I mean nothing) that is fortified with iron...
Either drink a good amount green tea or take green tea capsules every day split in divided dosages 2-3 times a day.

Do daily cardio if you can for 45-60 minutes<---do you know who never has high hemoglobin and hematocrit? Cardio fit athletes don't...FACT....any cardio elite athlete with have lower scale hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Women lose iron in their monthly period...men don't and store iron....iron overload is brutal on your body...(hence why I want you taking phytic acid IP6) to chelate the iron out of your body.

Is there some thing you probably don't want to do here? Lower red meat intake and a lot of cardio? Yea...but do you want to keep on TRT or a lil higher? Then you are going to have to do them......

a lot of literature shows with larger weekly shots that your hematocrit and hemoglobin dramatically rise while small every other day shots keep it more under control

do that plan and test out your H+H.....if it proves out to be 45-52.....hopefully more 45-50.....try out 30mg every other day.....<-----trust me on this...get off the milligram add up method.....steady every other day lower mg injections create levels that human bodies seem to utilize better<---im asking you to trust me on this.

what is the alternative? Getting off.

I think youll see 6 weeks down the road that your gains are even better with 20-30mg every other day than they were with the big 150mg shot once a week

Thank you for the time!
I'm on it!
Headed to the store for green tea and look for IP6 as soon as I drop my oldest at school.
I currently eat red meat once a day. How much should I drop this?
What type of cardio do you recommend? I don't have the best knees, so would a brisk walk work fine?

I had read about the EOD sub q injections the other day also and actually started this the beginning of the week.

One last question. I live in the mountains in Colorado at 8600 feet. Do you think this will affect me negatively in any way? ?


Thank you
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:55 PM   #17
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So, I finally found some IP6.
It says to take on Empty stomach away from meals because it hinders other mineral and nutrient absorbtion.
If eating every 2.5-3 hours like I do, when would be the best time to take this supplement?

Thank you!
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggcrapp View Post
I highly highly highly urge you to try the following

20mg of testosterone subcutaneous in lower ab fat with insulin needle every other day

take 1500-3000mg of IP6 a day
Dramatically lower your red meat intake and make sure you are taking nothing (and I mean nothing) that is fortified with iron...
Either drink a good amount green tea or take green tea capsules every day split in divided dosages 2-3 times a day.

Do daily cardio if you can for 45-60 minutes<---do you know who never has high hemoglobin and hematocrit? Cardio fit athletes don't...FACT....any cardio elite athlete with have lower scale hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Women lose iron in their monthly period...men don't and store iron....iron overload is brutal on your body...(hence why I want you taking phytic acid IP6) to chelate the iron out of your body.

Is there some thing you probably don't want to do here? Lower red meat intake and a lot of cardio? Yea...but do you want to keep on TRT or a lil higher? Then you are going to have to do them......

a lot of literature shows with larger weekly shots that your hematocrit and hemoglobin dramatically rise while small every other day shots keep it more under control

do that plan and test out your H+H.....if it proves out to be 45-52.....hopefully more 45-50.....try out 30mg every other day.....<-----trust me on this...get off the milligram add up method.....steady every other day lower mg injections create levels that human bodies seem to utilize better<---im asking you to trust me on this.

what is the alternative? Getting off.

I think youll see 6 weeks down the road that your gains are even better with 20-30mg every other day than they were with the big 150mg shot once a week

Hi,
Just wanted to ask if the 25mg EOD test shots are test enathate or cyp or better to go with test prop, being mildly less thicker than the other two,,??

Long term use of injecting in lower belly have anyvisible or cosmetic issues for a competitive b/builder? i,e lumps and bumps???
great info all round, just wanted to know more practical info on injecting,
Is it Done with sllin needle or 2.5ml with short 25g needle?
thanx!!!
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greekgod View Post
Hi,
Just wanted to ask if the 25mg EOD test shots are test enathate or cyp or better to go with test prop, being mildly less thicker than the other two,,??

Long term use of injecting in lower belly have anyvisible or cosmetic issues for a competitive b/builder? i,e lumps and bumps???
great info all round, just wanted to know more practical info on injecting,
Is it Done with sllin needle or 2.5ml with short 25g needle?
thanx!!!
I also would like know what GreekGod asked. Also, there seems to be some debate on whether gh affects hematocrit levels? What are yalls opinions on this? Last year, I'm pretty sure my levels got way too high running low dose drol, var and test. I was assuming gh did not help the matter.
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Old 11-02-2017, 02:18 AM   #20
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Have you gotten the diagnosis?
Androgen increases your Hemoglobin.
Have you done any lab work to check your Ferritin ? TIBC?
Its not a good idea to start any treatment when you dont know what to treat.
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:21 AM   #21
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I have had Non clinical Hemochromatosis (my body does all the same things as Hemochromatosis but i dont have any of the genes for it) for around 10 years and im also on TRT, it doesnt effect my blood cell counts at all, only my Iron and Ferritin levels.

I assume you understand what Hemochromatosis is? The body simply stores too much Iron. Storage Iron in the body is known as Ferritin.

Has your GP never done a simple Serum Ferritin, Transferin saturation level, Total Iron Binding Capacity and serum Iron blood draw?

Out of interest a normal ferritin blood range are between 12 and 300ng/ml (here in the UK anyway) and at my highest i was 1655ng/ml. At that reading i had patches of darker skin on my lower legs and forearms, tiredness and lethargy, headaches, constant thirst, zero sex drive and i also ended up with slight liver damage.
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