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Old 08-05-2016, 02:21 PM   #1
npcaldwell
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Water regulation based on urine output, frequency, clarity.

I've been doing a trial run practicing drying out for my upcoming show and have made some observations. Wednesday I took in 9 liters of water and 6g vitamin C, and as a result I was peeing clear every 45 minutes or so. Thursday I took in 12 liters water and 7.5g vitamin C, and was peeing clear every 30-35 minutes, I cut my water at 8 o'clock last night an hour before bed. This morning, Friday, I woke up drank 8 oz water with 3T lemon juice and 5g acetyl l-carnitine, I've been drinking 100ml water, sucking on 3 ice cubes, and taking 750mg vitamin C each hour (should be 10g total today), also eating no carbs today. As a result I've been peeing every 2.5 hours without much urgency and now it's not so clear, but I am starting to dry out nicely now.

I'm trying to see how much water I can drop today because I'm trying to hit light heavyweights next weekend, I'm going to have to weigh in dehydrated Friday night at 6 o'clock just to make weight, then load sodium/water when i hop off the scales, then load carbs late Friday night through Saturday morning to try to fill back out in time for 10 o'clock prejudging Saturday morning. I know this isn't optimal but I need to make light heavyweights if at all possible.

Has anyone noted a correlation between urine output, frequency, clarity, in relation to the level of "dryness" a person is achieving?
If so what would you generally consider an optimum output, frequency, and clarity to get dry?
Do people ever use these things as indicators, or is it best to base water intake solely off what things look like in the mirror?

I know Skip says drink enough to pee clear but I'm finding I can't seem to pee clear and dry out at the same time. Does this advice also apply to contest day?

Thank you.
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Old 08-05-2016, 03:41 PM   #2
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I agree with skip on this, generally the more water you take in the more clear your urine will be but there are many factors to drying out. How lean are you? I find the leaner I get the more I have to urinate
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Old 08-05-2016, 03:50 PM   #3
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According to a 3-site caliper test I'm 3.5% body fat.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:05 PM   #4
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Then if that's case I wouldn't be concerned too much with water intake in that you'd be ok consuming plenty of water. Just play a bit with how long it takes you to dry out and be careful dropping sodium too quickly . You'll go flat very fast with low sodium PLUS high water intake.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:08 PM   #5
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Then if that's case I wouldn't be concerned too much with water intake in that you'd be ok consuming plenty of water. Just play a bit with how long it takes you to dry out and be careful dropping sodium too quickly . You'll go flat very fast with low sodium PLUS high water intake.
Density,

I think you've missed the main point of his protocol, which is to make weight, with of course the goal thereafter to look as good as possible. Looking flat, etc. will be likely and probably what he wants (as it will mean he's lighter) before weigh-ins.

NPCaldwell is trying to optimize his chance of winning at least his weight class.

------------

I've written a 2 part article on John Meadows' site on this, and addressed it on professional muscle. (NPCCaldwell, you would really like that article... )

Yes, there will be a progression in terms of urinary volume and color, but color will depend on what's in the urine, e.g., B-vitamins and is not a very specific indicator (there is a pun in there for those who have experience with urinalysis).

The main parameter you've not mentioned, IMO, is body weight. Again, IMO (I've done this literally dozens upon dozens of times personally for >15 yr and with dozens and dozens of clients), is looking at the pattern of body weight loss and again as you proceed through your protocol. That will tell you what's happening in terms of water weight and is is the most relevant parameter to making weight. (You're not going to be tested for body hydration or judged as a bodybuilder at weigh-ins. How you look doesn't matter, really, except for perhaps your confidence, etc.)

So, if you know that with your pattern of water, Vit C, etc, intake, you drop 4 lb from 10AM to 6PM (for instance) during your practice run, you'll want to be within 4lb of your weight class limit at 10AM on the day of the weigh-in, as we'll as at the appropriate weight the day before and at other times when you weigh in, relative to that timer period. The weight fluctuation across the week will essentially be the same (even if at a lower body weight by a few lb), so your weight early in the week will predict that later in the week and you can decide if you need to make adjustments (e.g., in sodium intake, when you cut water, how much you cut water, etc.)

-S
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:33 AM   #6
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I'd love to read your article if you could direct me to it Sir!

After my test run yesterday I only made it down to 203.4, I need to hit 198. My weight yesterday morning at 0400 was 207.2 and at 1830 it was 203.4, 3.8 lb difference. So I'll have to wake up next Friday morning at 202 or less for it to work, not sure I'll make it.
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Old 08-06-2016, 01:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by npcaldwell View Post
I'd love to read your article if you could direct me to it Sir!
www.mountaindogdiet.com

Find my articles.

It's called how to skin a bodybuilder.

Quote:
After my test run yesterday I only made it down to 203.4, I need to hit 198. My weight yesterday morning at 0400 was 207.2 and at 1830 it was 203.4, 3.8 lb difference. So I'll have to wake up next Friday morning at 202 or less for it to work, not sure I'll make it.
Sounds like it could be tough, yes.

-S
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Old 08-06-2016, 07:39 PM   #8
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Crap, Dr Scott, the John Meadows link is a member's only article. Rats!
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Old 08-06-2016, 07:44 PM   #9
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According to a 3-site caliper test I'm 3.5% body fat.
Try the 9 point Parillo method and see what it is please. This will be more accurate.
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Old 08-07-2016, 12:23 AM   #10
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(Sorry for just being kind of blunt. Getting late and I wanted to get the below info. in here. )


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Crap, Dr Scott, the John Meadows link is a member's only article. Rats!
Yes, John owns the article.

It's $15 for a month there, right?... You can sing up read and then cancel the membership - happens all the time...

For a competitor, this is 1/5 the cost of entry fee if that. Maybe the cost to spray tan one leg.

There is a well known italian bodybuilding coach who uses my methods (I chat with him a few times / month usually) with several IFBB pro's and has for a couple year. (Folks really like this over there b/c there have been a few Italians Bb'ers pass away in the past few years.)

It's what Dave Henry uses, I use and have put together over the course of about 15 years. It works for almost all clients, execeptoins being those on BP meds (diuretic), chronic caffeine abuseers (one guy taking in nearly 2000mg of caffeine / day) and people who son't do practice runs and/or freak out.

It's the only scientifically referenced full guide to setting up an entire peak weak (sans pharm diuretics) that I have ever seen.

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Try the 9 point Parillo method and see what it is please. This will be more accurate.
I've never seen any validation of his 9 pt procedure. I have his book High Performance Bodybuilding right here in front of me. He makes that accuracy claim, but that is non-sensical without a validation procedure, scientifically speaking.

-S
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Old 08-07-2016, 12:18 PM   #11
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Hey Scott, I just read your articles on Meadows site, it all makes a lot of sense, and gave me some ideas to try. I don't think I can make the lower weight class without dropping my water completely for 24 hours before weighing in so I might as well go out as big, full, and dry as possible right. I will be utilizing the methods you described in your articles to make this happen.

Is there any advantage to lengthening vs shortening the carb up window? I can handle a large volume of food in a very short time period, I could eat two 750g carb meals in a matter of 3 hours no problem. Is it generally just easier for people to digest this volume of food when taken in over a longer time frame?

Also do you feel it's possible to over load carbs if a "touch up" is needed Saturday morning if water is already under control? Just watch carb quantity/volume to avoid abdominal distention?

Thanks again for pointing me towards your articles, wealth of knowledge.
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Old 08-07-2016, 03:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npcaldwell View Post
Hey Scott, I just read your articles on Meadows site, it all makes a lot of sense, and gave me some ideas to try. I don't think I can make the lower weight class without dropping my water completely for 24 hours before weighing in so I might as well go out as big, full, and dry as possible right. I will be utilizing the methods you described in your articles to make this happen.
Makes sense. A trial run is definitely ideal, so if you've got a plan that you know already (that works), I'd stick with that.

Quote:
Is there any advantage to lengthening vs shortening the carb up window? I can handle a large volume of food in a very short time period, I could eat two 750g carb meals in a matter of 3 hours no problem. Is it generally just easier for people to digest this volume of food when taken in over a longer time frame?
What matters is what works for you as far filling up. If you can do it in 24hr, that fine. You'll hold the carb load for a couple days, at least (this varies, too), as long as you don't train or over pose.

(Note: "Fill and Spill" is the goal, so if you need more time to dry out, and can fill up quickly then doing so would help in drying out after carbing up.)

Quote:
Also do you feel it's possible to over load carbs if a "touch up" is needed Saturday morning if water is already under control? Just watch carb quantity/volume to avoid abdominal distention?
If you are TRULY dried out (the article outlines how to do know), then spilling over is unlikely. (Yes, avoid abdominal distention, so using foods you've been eating is safest. )

Quote:
Thanks again for pointing me towards your articles, wealth of knowledge.
You're welcome!

-S
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:21 PM   #13
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After my last minute carb load trial run (when i still thought i could make light heavies) last weekend I definitely went past my "spill" point. I took in 2400 grams of carbs in 22 hours, and it wasn't too bad until I started drinking water normaly the next day and I blew up. I went from 203.4 (dehydrated) Friday night at 1830 to 215.2 Monday morning at 0500, holding so much water my legs ache and my vascularity in my legs is completely gone. Should have been closer to a 20lb gain given the 1:3 carb to water ratio. Think I'll reduce my carbs a little bit loading for the show, like by 2/3 the amount, 1600 grams should be about perfect.

I'm still curious about my thoughts in my original post, and am starting to closely monitor not only my input but also my urine output volume, timing, and clarity. I want to gather more data to be able to determine my water timing and volume for next time.

I'm planning on drinking 2 gallons per day through Thursday this week, while also watching my output and scale weight as I move from no carb to my carb loading phase. Then track my water loss patterns and scale weight as I ramp up the water to 3 gallons before i cut water Friday night through Saturday morning. I love this stuff, this whole "fine tuning" process and the knowledge I gain keeps me hooked on this sport, the learning means as much to me as the end result on the stage.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npcaldwell View Post
After my last minute carb load trial run (when i still thought i could make light heavies) last weekend I definitely went past my "spill" point. I took in 2400 grams of carbs in 22 hours, and it wasn't too bad until I started drinking water normaly the next day and I blew up. I went from 203.4 (dehydrated) Friday night at 1830 to 215.2 Monday morning at 0500, holding so much water my legs ache and my vascularity in my legs is completely gone. Should have been closer to a 20lb gain given the 1:3 carb to water ratio. Think I'll reduce my carbs a little bit loading for the show, like by 2/3 the amount, 1600 grams should be about perfect.

I'm still curious about my thoughts in my original post, and am starting to closely monitor not only my input but also my urine output volume, timing, and clarity. I want to gather more data to be able to determine my water timing and volume for next time.

I'm planning on drinking 2 gallons per day through Thursday this week, while also watching my output and scale weight as I move from no carb to my carb loading phase. Then track my water loss patterns and scale weight as I ramp up the water to 3 gallons before i cut water Friday night through Saturday morning. I love this stuff, this whole "fine tuning" process and the knowledge I gain keeps me hooked on this sport, the learning means as much to me as the end result on the stage.
It's very cool stuff.

I spent years (and still do) refining that process. It's different for each person in terms of each of the major players (water, sodium, carbohydrate) and timing of each, so it keeps you on your toes.

Good luck!

(When in doubt, I take dry over full. )

-S
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:46 AM   #15
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Well I did it! I hit 197.4 this morning, now just need to hold it until I weigh in tonight. 198.25 seemed impossible 4 days ago after my carb load peaked I was 215.2 Monday morning. Hopefully I have time to rehydrate slightly and carb up later tonight through tomorrow morning. I thought about drinking a liter of water, 500mg sea salt, a scoop of gatorade, and maybe 30g HBCD as soon as I get off the scale at 1800, then wait until about midnight to start carb loading with dry carbs.

It's also been interesting tracking my intake and output as I've manipulated my water to get down to this weight, hopefully it will be some valuable information for future contest preps.
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Old 09-01-2016, 07:58 PM   #16
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It's called how to skin a bodybuilder.
-S
It seems relevant to post in this thread because I learned of Scott's article here. I used this method last weekend with very good results. Some notes... I didn't do a trial run because I entered the show last minute. I sustained an injury and wasn't sure I could do the show. A trial run would have been helpful.

I only carbed up 250 carbs of rice on Wednesday. I'm one of the "carb-phobes" Scott mentions. I wanted err on the side of dry versus full. I've Skip-Loaded before and been a watery mess for a week. I woke up tighter on Thursday morning following the 250 carbs. No spill. Interestingly though, after going back to low carbohydrate and continuing loading water, I was watery on Friday morning. That made me a little nervous but I trusted the drying out process and started with caffeine.

I dropped water at 6 pm on Friday. In retrospect, that should have been earlier. I was still peeing clear after the night show Saturday and I stayed "dry" the entire day. The caffeine did keep me up but the lack of sleep wasn't detrimental.

I loaded a few more carbs Saturday morning to try and pull the last bit of water from under my skin. Then prejudging.

Here's where things got crazy... After prejudging, I ate some egg whites and rice cakes. 250 more grams of dry carbohydrates. An hour or so later, everything started to really pop.

IMG_20160827_151418resize.jpg

I wasn't pleased with the show photographs so I'm considering dropping water again in 2 weeks and paying a professional photographer for images. If I do, I'll use what I learned. A few more carbs on Wednesday. Cut water earlier on Friday. Dry carbs on Saturday morning to polish off the desired look.

Thanks Scott!
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Well I did it! I hit 197.4 this morning, now just need to hold it until I weigh in tonight. 198.25 seemed impossible 4 days ago after my carb load peaked I was 215.2 Monday morning. Hopefully I have time to rehydrate slightly and carb up later tonight through tomorrow morning. I thought about drinking a liter of water, 500mg sea salt, a scoop of gatorade, and maybe 30g HBCD as soon as I get off the scale at 1800, then wait until about midnight to start carb loading with dry carbs.

It's also been interesting tracking my intake and output as I've manipulated my water to get down to this weight, hopefully it will be some valuable information for future contest preps.
Bummer - I missed this update a few weeks back...

-S
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:05 PM   #18
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It seems relevant to post in this thread because I learned of Scott's article here. I used this method last weekend with very good results. Some notes... I didn't do a trial run because I entered the show last minute. I sustained an injury and wasn't sure I could do the show. A trial run would have been helpful.

I only carbed up 250 carbs of rice on Wednesday. I'm one of the "carb-phobes" Scott mentions. I wanted err on the side of dry versus full. I've Skip-Loaded before and been a watery mess for a week. I woke up tighter on Thursday morning following the 250 carbs. No spill. Interestingly though, after going back to low carbohydrate and continuing loading water, I was watery on Friday morning. That made me a little nervous but I trusted the drying out process and started with caffeine.

I dropped water at 6 pm on Friday. In retrospect, that should have been earlier. I was still peeing clear after the night show Saturday and I stayed "dry" the entire day. The caffeine did keep me up but the lack of sleep wasn't detrimental.

I loaded a few more carbs Saturday morning to try and pull the last bit of water from under my skin. Then prejudging.

Here's where things got crazy... After prejudging, I ate some egg whites and rice cakes. 250 more grams of dry carbohydrates. An hour or so later, everything started to really pop.

Attachment 52143

I wasn't pleased with the show photographs so I'm considering dropping water again in 2 weeks and paying a professional photographer for images. If I do, I'll use what I learned. A few more carbs on Wednesday. Cut water earlier on Friday. Dry carbs on Saturday morning to polish off the desired look.

Thanks Scott!
Nice job, man!

You put together a decent plan and have a few things to do that should mostly certainly improve your look. (You look pretty damn good in that pic!!!)

Well done!

-S
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