View Full Version : alapha lipoic acid and ketosis


5luke2
06-07-2007, 02:04 PM
i read on another board that it is possible to stay in ketosis while having near 200g of carbs on workout days with the use of alapha lipoic acid and chromium.

can this b at all true, and how would this work?

wakejump4me
06-07-2007, 07:48 PM
i don't believe it . how is that possible ? somebody correct me if i am wrong , but i would like to say what homonunculus has to say about this .
well , to be honest , i think it could be possible but you will have to work out 5 times a day . :D

wake

homonunculus
06-07-2007, 10:27 PM
Yes, I've corresponded with people who spent extended periods of time on ketogenic diets. who were able to eat even a zone type macronutrient split and still have urinary ketones for weeks or longer. Apparently enzymes of ketogenesis had upregulated themselves and remained that way...

If you were to use enough alpha-lipoic acid, chromium etc., and do enough cardio to minimize insulin spikes (maximize insulin sensitivity) such that the ratio of insulin to glucagon were low enough, you'd have hepatic ketogenesis...

-R

deadlift0
06-07-2007, 10:37 PM
what is ketosis if i may ask HN

5luke2
06-07-2007, 10:57 PM
Yes, I've corresponded with people who spent extended periods of time on ketogenic diets. who were able to eat even a zone type macronutrient split and still have urinary ketones for weeks or longer. Apparently enzymes of ketogenesis had upregulated themselves and remained that way...

If you were to use enough alpha-lipoic acid, chromium etc., and do enough cardio to minimize insulin spikes (maximize insulin sensitivity) such that the ratio of insulin to glucagon were low enough, you'd have hepatic ketogenesis...

-R

so what if all i want is about 30-35 grams of carbs after i workout and the rest of my carbs are trace carbs (lettuce peanuts etc) would i take the ALA and Chromium with the carbs after my workout or would i need them more then one time a day?

homonunculus
06-08-2007, 12:21 AM
what is ketosis if i may ask HN

http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=ketosis&action=Search+OMD

-R

homonunculus
06-08-2007, 12:23 AM
so what if all i want is about 30-35 grams of carbs after i workout and the rest of my carbs are trace carbs (lettuce peanuts etc) would i take the ALA and Chromium with the carbs after my workout or would i need them more then one time a day?

Depends on:

You
Carbs on other days
Last carb-up
How long you've been eating low carb
Type of workout
Type of carbs
Mix of carbs with protein
Protein intake
Etc.

Simple answer is after you've adapted metabolically - you probably wouldn't need them at all to have ketouria a few hours after you've taken in the carbs...

-R

deadlift0
06-08-2007, 12:34 AM
thanks homonunculus

5luke2
06-08-2007, 01:06 AM
homonunculus, thanks for the info! i also sent you a PM but i can just as easily post it here, whatever works easier for you.

homonunculus
06-08-2007, 10:42 AM
Luke, you've got a PM.

-R

5luke2
06-08-2007, 10:53 AM
all of my answers are in blue

Depends on:

You
Carbs on other days
carbs on other days would be sat and sunday or just one of those days
Last carb-up
again this would be on the weekend
How long you've been eating low carb
ive been eating lower carbs. i only have vegatables all day long and a piece of fruit for brekfast with a cheat day on saturday, trying to stick to high carb now, but the fat has not been very high. during workouts i sip 1 gatorade and BCAAs and after workouts i will have about 10-20g complex carbs
Type of workout
3 day a week powerlifting type split:
wk 1
m- max effort squat
w- max effort bench
f- squat assistance
wk2
m-bench assistance
w- max effort squat
f- max effort bench
Type of carbs
Mix of carbs with protein
right now besides the gatorade and BCAAs i only have vegatables and a the occasional piece of fruit with brekfast
Protein intake
anywhere from 300-350g i weigh around 255
Etc.

Simple answer is after you've adapted metabolically - you probably wouldn't need them at all to have ketouria a few hours after you've taken in the carbs...

-R

hate to keep bugging you but if i was to begin a diet liek the 'anabolic diet' that is high fat low carbs mon-fri and then a carb up on sat-sun or just one of the weekend days. i wanna know if it would be smart to contine with the carbs during training or if it should be BCAAs and protein only.

i currently take alpha lipoic acid on my carb up/ cheat day on either saturday or sunday. if i was to switch over to more of a keto diet ala the 'anabolic diet' i would use the ALA on the weekends and then after the workouts as well.

does any of this makes sense or do i look completly stupid here, i am very new to this type of dieting while lifting but when i was in highscool and wrestled i would alwasy use a highfat and low carb diet to drop wieght fast between football to get ready for wrestling. one year i dropped 30lbs in under 2 months the next year about 20 or so in the same amount of time

is there any more info i could give you that could help?

i hope im not asking to much of you and if i am i apologize.

thanks,
luke

Luke,

Why don't you ask this in the thread?...

As far as carbs and ketosis...

Ketosis is not a holy metabolic grail, IMO. If you find that it keeps your appetite low and energy high, then try to stay in ketosis. If you maybe don't spill ketones in your urine for a few hr. b/c you drank some gatorade during your workout but don't feel extra hungry or tired b/c you're maybe not in ketosis - its no big deal.

OTOH, having some carbs with your workout to help you power through it (the carbs mainly for your brain), this very important - you want to keep your strength as much as possible.

Check out Lyle McDonald's book The Ketogenic Diet. It'll have pretty much all the answers...

-R

thank you very much

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