Topic IV: OTC during the last week of prep

**Ken "Skip" Hill** · 05-12-2005, 03:48 PM

This topic is for discussion of dropping OTC (only) supps the last week of prep including dosing, timing, what to leave, etc..

I will get in here shortly as I have to awaken some of the experts and get them in here. hehe

Skip

**Ken "Skip" Hill** · 05-12-2005, 06:30 PM

TooPoo: I see you circling like a vulcher..... LMAO!

Skip

troponin · 05-12-2005, 09:15 PM

Yohimbine is dropped 2 weeks out. I find that it causes water retention.
Creatine is dropped around the same time.
I keep just about everything else in through the show. this includes taking ECA on the day of the show.
I'm guessing that people will have differing opinions about this.

Skip, I don't know if you remember, but I believe we covered this a little at bolex a few years ago. I think the topic was wether or not to drop clen the last week.

**homonunculus** · 05-12-2005, 10:47 PM

I'm with trop, although I think you can keep both of those around a bit closer to the show - dropping each 3 - 4 days out is OK. Depending on how you carb-up creatine can be used a few days before the show and be beneficial, IMO.

-R

**Ken "Skip" Hill** · 05-13-2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troponin

Yohimbine is dropped 2 weeks out. I find that it causes water retention.
Creatine is dropped around the same time.
I keep just about everything else in through the show. this includes taking ECA on the day of the show.
I'm guessing that people will have differing opinions about this.

Skip, I don't know if you remember, but I believe we covered this a little at bolex a few years ago. I think the topic was wether or not to drop clen the last week.

Holy shit - THAT is where I have heard your name before. LOL I can't believe it has taken me this long to figure it out. Did we argue? I used to argue alot on bolex. God, I got to the point where I hated that place.

I am too fucking tired to think right now so I will be back tomorrow and post up on this.

Skip

KINGKONG · 05-13-2005, 10:38 AM

Question. I have noticed that ephedrine causes a softness in the legs,, anyone else know this? I doubt its true but the old schooler who prepped me for my first show always told me that the body retains some of it in the muscle. Now although I know that is not correct I have noticed that when ephedrine is taken out my legs would always start to look sharper hence I have always had people drop it two weeks out.

troponin · 05-13-2005, 03:01 PM

Interesting KINGKONG. I may try that.
My reasoning is, after using ECA throughout the prep, I'm just so sluggish the first couple of days after I stop taking it. Plus, I get a little water rebound from the caffeine being dropped. So, I've ended up deciding on leaving it in, but dropping the dose as low as possible during the final week, to try not to interfere with the carb up.

As far as clen, I'll often have people keep it in through the carb up as well. If they're struggling to get in shape, and we're still pushing it at a week out, I don't have them drop the clen cold turkey for the same reason. I find that I bloat up slightly after I drop the clen.
I utilize clen in what I feel is a very unique way though.
If the person is in the condition they should be in at 2 weeks out, the clen is removed then, to allow the body to normalize.
I do find that it is harder to fill people out while on clen.

Skip, on bolex, I said that I like to drop it at 2 weeks out, and you said it wasn't that big of a deal to keep it in.
I said my reasoning was that I felt it interfered with the carb up.
But, actually, you kind of changed my opinion on it, after our argument, I wasn't so against dropping it out at 2 weeks. I still prefer to do that though.

**Ken "Skip" Hill** · 05-13-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troponin

If the person is in the condition they should be in at 2 weeks out, the clen is removed then, to allow the body to normalize.
I do find that it is harder to fill people out while on clen.

Skip, on bolex, I said that I like to drop it at 2 weeks out, and you said it wasn't that big of a deal to keep it in.
I said my reasoning was that I felt it interfered with the carb up.
But, actually, you kind of changed my opinion on it, after our argument, I wasn't so against dropping it out at 2 weeks. I still prefer to do that though.

Well, my opinion has evolved, as well. lol Go figure, huh?

I prefer to have it out at 2 weeks, if at all possible for the exact reasons that you mention. You can load while on it but it is just harder to do, I believe. If it HAS to be in under the two week mark, I try to cut it as low or taper it as low as I am confortable with, through the show. I feel that if you can't get it out at the 2 week mark then you might as well leave it due to it being an added stress on the body to dump it, if that makes sense.

I remember me arguing that point about clen BUT.... that was when I used and recommend clen with ketotifen and for that reason, clen was able to be taken for long periods of time. I felt that it was an added stress to have something in for so long and then taken out so close to the show. I now do NOT recommend using ketotifen because I feel strongly that it does little to nothing to keep clen from becoming ineffective. I have used it so many times with so many guys with ketotifen and then without it on a normal clen schedule and the results with OUT the keto are SO much better.

I still feel loading can be done on clen without much of a problem BUT variables are variables so if you can eliminate even 1 variable for that last week of prep, do it.

Skip

troponin · 05-13-2005, 08:51 PM

That's pretty much exactly how I feel Skip.

**Ken "Skip" Hill** · 05-14-2005, 07:53 AM

I have a similar approach with T3 during the last week or so, as well. However, I have a different plan that most with T3, post contest. That can be our next topic - post contest supplementation and tapering.

Skip

KINGKONG · 05-14-2005, 05:41 PM

Another thing with the ECA which Im sure you know but caffeine will cause insulin resistance which may not be a huge deal except with some of the more natural athletes. Love Yohimbe and will cycle that with clen. One thing that sucks, I am asthmatic and because of that I have taken albuterol all my life which of course is just a shorter acting clen. So I have to schedule my clen in shorter higher bursts then lay off it. Everyone was always hyping the super clen LMAO people were freaking out when I told them I was taking 10 a day or more but forgot to tell them about my asthma.

Dirkmoneyshot · 05-18-2005, 01:17 AM

I don't make a lot of changes the last week - However,

I do lower the dose on ECA or Clen (which ever were using at the time). The rebound from coming completely off in some individuals is mind numbing. (Myself included) - I do agree that the clen can make some individuals harder to fill out.

I don't like to use very much T3 in my preps however it is lowered back.

In addition to the Multivitamin/Mineral i have them taking 2x / day, I add in additional Multiminerals and Magnesium.

Creatine and Glutamine, BCAA's is dropped out 2 weeks precontest. I strictly go with food and make it pretty basic.

Dirkmoneyshot · 05-18-2005, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

variables are variables so if you can eliminate even 1 variable for that last week of prep, do it.
Skip

This is a great quote and exactly the way i do my thing -

05-12-2005, 03:48 PM	#1
Ken "Skip" Hill Judge, Jury and Executioner Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 13,164	Topic IV: OTC during the last week of prep This topic is for discussion of dropping OTC (only) supps the last week of prep including dosing, timing, what to leave, etc.. I will get in here shortly as I have to awaken some of the experts and get them in here. hehe Skip __________________ Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me: TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com. "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

05-12-2005, 06:30 PM	#2
Ken "Skip" Hill Judge, Jury and Executioner Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 13,164	TooPoo: I see you circling like a vulcher..... LMAO! Skip __________________ Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me: TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com. "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

05-12-2005, 09:15 PM	#3
troponin Roundtable Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 380	Yohimbine is dropped 2 weeks out. I find that it causes water retention. Creatine is dropped around the same time. I keep just about everything else in through the show. this includes taking ECA on the day of the show. I'm guessing that people will have differing opinions about this. Skip, I don't know if you remember, but I believe we covered this a little at bolex a few years ago. I think the topic was wether or not to drop clen the last week. __________________ www.troponinnutrition.com Smarter nutrition for harder athletes www.protegenutrition.com

05-12-2005, 10:47 PM	#4
homonunculus Super Moderator/Roundtable Expert Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 9,329	I'm with trop, although I think you can keep both of those around a bit closer to the show - dropping each 3 - 4 days out is OK. Depending on how you carb-up creatine can be used a few days before the show and be beneficial, IMO. -R __________________ NOW AVAILABLE: DAVE HENRY - XTREME MEASURES VIDEO!!! <<<WATCH THE TRAILER>>> -------- FOR THE ABSOLUTELY HIGHEST QUALITY SUPPLEMENTS...AT THE ABSOLUTE LOWEST PRICE... www.trueprotein.com

05-13-2005, 03:01 PM	#7
troponin Roundtable Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 380	Interesting KINGKONG. I may try that. My reasoning is, after using ECA throughout the prep, I'm just so sluggish the first couple of days after I stop taking it. Plus, I get a little water rebound from the caffeine being dropped. So, I've ended up deciding on leaving it in, but dropping the dose as low as possible during the final week, to try not to interfere with the carb up. As far as clen, I'll often have people keep it in through the carb up as well. If they're struggling to get in shape, and we're still pushing it at a week out, I don't have them drop the clen cold turkey for the same reason. I find that I bloat up slightly after I drop the clen. I utilize clen in what I feel is a very unique way though. If the person is in the condition they should be in at 2 weeks out, the clen is removed then, to allow the body to normalize. I do find that it is harder to fill people out while on clen. Skip, on bolex, I said that I like to drop it at 2 weeks out, and you said it wasn't that big of a deal to keep it in. I said my reasoning was that I felt it interfered with the carb up. But, actually, you kind of changed my opinion on it, after our argument, I wasn't so against dropping it out at 2 weeks. I still prefer to do that though. __________________ www.troponinnutrition.com Smarter nutrition for harder athletes www.protegenutrition.com

05-13-2005, 10:38 AM	#6
KINGKONG Roundtable Expert Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 178	Question. I have noticed that ephedrine causes a softness in the legs,, anyone else know this? I doubt its true but the old schooler who prepped me for my first show always told me that the body retains some of it in the muscle. Now although I know that is not correct I have noticed that when ephedrine is taken out my legs would always start to look sharper hence I have always had people drop it two weeks out.

05-13-2005, 08:51 PM	#9
troponin Roundtable Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 380	That's pretty much exactly how I feel Skip. __________________ www.troponinnutrition.com Smarter nutrition for harder athletes www.protegenutrition.com

05-14-2005, 07:53 AM	#10
Ken "Skip" Hill Judge, Jury and Executioner Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 13,164	I have a similar approach with T3 during the last week or so, as well. However, I have a different plan that most with T3, post contest. That can be our next topic - post contest supplementation and tapering. Skip __________________ Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me: TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com. "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

05-14-2005, 05:41 PM	#11
KINGKONG Roundtable Expert Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 178	Another thing with the ECA which Im sure you know but caffeine will cause insulin resistance which may not be a huge deal except with some of the more natural athletes. Love Yohimbe and will cycle that with clen. One thing that sucks, I am asthmatic and because of that I have taken albuterol all my life which of course is just a shorter acting clen. So I have to schedule my clen in shorter higher bursts then lay off it. Everyone was always hyping the super clen LMAO people were freaking out when I told them I was taking 10 a day or more but forgot to tell them about my asthma.

05-18-2005, 01:17 AM	#12
Dirkmoneyshot Roundtable Expert Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Midwest Posts: 459	I don't make a lot of changes the last week - However, I do lower the dose on ECA or Clen (which ever were using at the time). The rebound from coming completely off in some individuals is mind numbing. (Myself included) - I do agree that the clen can make some individuals harder to fill out. I don't like to use very much T3 in my preps however it is lowered back. In addition to the Multivitamin/Mineral i have them taking 2x / day, I add in additional Multiminerals and Magnesium. Creatine and Glutamine, BCAA's is dropped out 2 weeks precontest. I strictly go with food and make it pretty basic. __________________ Whatever your mind can conceive and believe, you can achieve!!!

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