Ken "Skip" Hill

Yes, we are still working out the kinks with the format but I can't stand it - I want to get rolling right now. I am going to try to keep this particular part of the forum as information only so if there are questions posted in the questions forum, please try to get info into this part of the forum, if possible. If they are general questions they can be answered in the other forum but if we are on a subject, let's try to keep it all organized as much as possible.

Also, PLEASE have fun with this. I get bored very easily and whether you think so or not, it IS all about me.

Dirk: If you can move your post into this thread that would be cool. I would do it but we both know I am lazy as hell. If I burn 4 calories while moving the thread, I may not grow.

Skip

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Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

Ken "Skip" Hill

Back when I was 4, I had a vision....

Forget it, I will have to wait until later today to get my post up. I get kind of long winded.

Skip

__________________
Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

Dirkmoneyshot

As for me i follow the philosophy of "Feed the machine" - We work so hard to build the muscle we have, only to go on such starvation diets in the attempt of leaning out -

This goes against my way of thinking - I would much rather maintain a high level of nutrients to the body and use other methods (Cardio, Supplements) to do the work in getting rid of the fat - This has proven for me to work best at holding on to the most muscle possible.

However, I will say this - The last 4 weeks i do like to tighten up on the carbohydrates and will typically lower them or cycle during this time to get the last bit of fat off. You can typically tell the guys that diet on high carbs as opposed to low carbs. For me the guys on low carbs typically get the fat off better, but lose muscle in the process or fullness - where as the high carb guys have a thick appearence to their skin still but look full. Thus the cycling of carbs those last weeks.

As far as contest prep with someone not on gear as apposed to being on - Obviously the above becomes a little bit different. The amount of cardio that someone can get by on is typically less and you don't have the other goodies to help - With that being said i still work on getting the cardio in, but have to make constant adjustments to their diet as we go along, compared to less with the enhanced athlete.

One of the other things that the natural athlete needs to do is take better care of himself in the offseason. While i like all the people i work with to stay under 13%. The natural athlete really has to take this to heart. I might be able to work miracles on a guy @ 20% when he's using "supps", but the same is hard to be said for the natty. (This is one area - OFF SEASON EATING) i would love to get into next with everyone on here.

If i'm not touching on something let me know and i'll be happy to dive on in.

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Ken "Skip" Hill

I probably have less of a "pattern" than anyone here, I am guessing. I don't figure out how I am going to put anything together until I get a ton of info from that client. I take into account past dieting practices including failures and successes. I take into consideration their current caloric intake and where their bodyfat levels are and I go from there. I suppose I FAVOR a higher protein intake and I favor a moderate fat intake with carbs being relatively moderate, as well. However, that doesn't mean that each diet is set up this way. If I have 20 diets going I could have 15 different ratios. It just depends.

Some have heard me refer to "baselines" and by this I mean that I baseline protein and fat intake. I find a level of protein and fat and almost ALWAYS keep this constant (baseline) and only manipulate bodyfat levels with carbs, cardio and supplementation. I do not subscribe, personally, to upping protein precontest because I feel that the protein that helped you build that muscle is going to be needed to help you retain that muscle while dieting.

I also prefer LONG preps. 20 weeks is usually what I want unless a rare exception of someone that is relatively lean coming into the prep. SOME of DCs guys (but certainly not all of them) have been known to get carried away with growing and pushing calories but not watching carb cut offs and cardio too much. I have been trying to emphasize this year that I need guys to be careful and keep track of their bodyfat levels after having a few rough preps last year. Dropping 60 or more pounds should not be happening and I guarantee that the leaner you are coming into the prep, the tighter you will be come show time.

As for ratios, I don't use them, really. I also don't use formulas or any software. I simply take detailed client info and literally put pencil to paper and pull out my calculator and that is it. Diet always starts first and cardio waits along with supplementation that affects the metabolism. The diet must be working before any other variables are added and for me, this is the easiest way to see how the body reacts before adding in the extras.

I will add more but I have to eat. : )

Skip

__________________
Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

Ken "Skip" Hill

Remember to use the questions forum instead of posting questions in here, guys.

Iabadman, the kids are doing great and I appreciate the kind words as usual. : )

Now, I have to delete my own post, too. lol

Skip

__________________
Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

KINGKONG

I think Ill fit right in with everyone else. My thoughts are start the diet out earlier and do less cardio. I would rather use cardio as a manipulation factor than as something to rely on. Besides I know so many people who 4 weeks out have shot their metabolism because they have started dieting with cardio from the begining. I have tried the whole carb cycling with some success as well as just done lower carbs throughout. I found the thread on using fruits while dieting down as well as have talked with people about this. Withought giving to much away all i will say is it is really common sense. Use certain fruits when you want to have energy and others when you want enough to sustain body metabolism but not raise glycemic index to much. Plus you have to figure that mixing them in with fats and proteins will slow digestion down anyway. Let me throw out one fact that most people do not know or don't think of.. THE BIGGER YOU ARE THE EASIER IT IS TO DIET LOL. I remember dieting for my first show compared to my last one and HOLY CRAP. Granted there were more chemicals invovled and no it wasnt' eat at KFC every day,, but there were many more cheat days then when I first competed. Think about it the bigger you are the HOTTER the furnace burns and all I had to do was clean up my diet and BOOM the weight started dropping. Im not saying its the same for everyon but just throwing a few thoughts out there. Damn I am like Skip when it comes to this stuff,, I get rolling and have to hold back.. Let me recollect my thoughts and Start again.

KINGKONG

Damn just as I was typing my last post Skip your saying what I think already. LOL. Definately agree with you on the carbs. I prefer to have a base amount of protein and fats to use as a caloric base to sustain muscle. I like using carbs as the manipulation factor. Reguardless of how complex theories may get I have always stuck with the fact that the body uses glucose as energy,, when their is not enough it kicks over to the stored energy reserves.

Dirkmoneyshot

This is in response to "BIG ED's QUESTION" -

I've never had any experience with dropping someone carbs and hitting the cardio hard to try and fill out later - For me this is a good way of dropping strength and muscle, doing things gradually making the smallest amount of change to get the response i want is best IMO. I never want to purposely be ahead of schedule nor behind.

To get back to the other question - I don't have a set macro ratio i like to use, but like to keep the fat fairly low throughout the prep. I do make adjustments to the protein and carbs: It might be upping protein by 25g E4W and dropping carbs 25g E2W. In the meantime the cardio would be increased by "SMALL" amounts to continue facilitating the fat burning process, this happens until 4 weeks out and then it doesn't move. Along with adding in other "supps" to keep the fat going also.

As far as OTC supplements that i recommend: Nothing special, just the basics to cover the athlete. If there is something that the feel they "need" to use (ie: glutamine, creatine, bcaa's). I'll add that to keep them happy, although i think most can do without. One of the benefits in my opinion with keeping kcals higher is the less supplements you need. As far as how low i go on lets say a big guy - up until lets say 4 weeks out. 200 - 250g / day would be low. After that it would be probably 125. That would be for someone Coming into a contest at 225 - 250 lb or so.

As far as staggering carbs at the end: Nothing unusal, as it might be low carbs and a high carb day E3D. 4 weeks out and then the next it might be E4D. Just depends on how their coming along.

Training changes: Mainly the farther along we get the less working sets we do. By the end of the prep it might have dropped 12 work sets for a paticular body part to 9 work sets.

Attacking those stubborn parts in my mind is nothing more than a little more dieting to hit those areas.

My plan of attack is to keep things as simple to follow as possible. The less complicated the plan is the more likely the athlete is going to follow it.

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wyldeone

I have always felt that keeping my clients within target in the off-season has worked best. Usually i set a target bodyfat around 12% as I can start cleaning up their diets at 16 weeks out and the real diet starts at 12 weeks. Keep in mind I prefer that they eat whatever they want within reason in the off-season if they can maintain the target bodyfat percentage as once we clean up the diet their metabolism kicks into overdrive and they will loose the bodyfat fairly quickly. As far as pre-contest dieting I will usually start them on a standard 40% protein/40% carbs/ 20% fat prgram and adjust accordingly depending on how carb sensitive they are. In most cases the majority of my clients don't even start cardio until about 8 weeks out as I prefer to keep caloric intake higher and make up for it with activity level(ie cardio,training intensity,supplements) I have watched way to many people go cyclo-genic or low carb and loose alot of lean coming down and still not achieve the look they are after and in my opinion what is the point of getting that big in the off-season to loose it all because #1 your to lazy to do the cardio or #2 you just got to fat in the off-season! In the end the bodyfat all has to come off so I feel it is just alot easier to keep my guys leaner and maintain their caloric requirements in the off-season at which point usually my guys are ready to go or very close at 3-4 weeks out and it allows us to manipulate and fine-tune their nutritional programs to get give them that pealed look. another thing many people don't understand and KIngKong touched on this is the choice of carb sources and how they relate in terms of their glycemic index and how your body will utilize and ascimilate the food. Another key ingredient is fat intake. There is no substitute for GOOD FATS IE Omega-3's and flaxseed oil being two of them. This is my take as I know everyone has different strategies and idea's and of coarse everything is custom taylored to each specific client but this is a good baseline and rule of thumb. wyldeone.

Ken "Skip" Hill

Wylde:

I want to touch on the GI issue that you mentioned.

I know that using low GI carbs has been debated in the past as far as some thinking that it is crucial and others thinking that it is not. I strongly believe that the GI is important when dealing with carbs during your prep. I do acknowledge that there are guys that can get peeled with white rice and white potatoes but even if they can, they are usually torturing themselves due to hunger because at the very least, low GI carbs cannot sustain blood sugar levels like lower GI carbs can - NOT even considering adding fat and protein to the meal. It may stretch it out further but in the end, it can't hang like lower GI carbs do.

You and I debated cardio a few months ago on PM and now you say you don't put it in until 8 weeks out. I am going back to PM and pulling that thread up and cutting and pasting you response to that thread. LOL

What say you about the GI?

Skip

__________________
Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

wyldeone

Skip,

I agree with you completely. I know quite a few years ago when i adressed glycemic indexes and how the are rated in terms of your bodies ability to ascimilate them people didn't buy into it because it was never really discussed why specific complex carb sources were used everyone just knew they were supposed to eat oatmeal or oats because that is what all bodybuilders ate. Another example everyone knew they were supposed to eat potatos but stay away from russetts but no one knew why! So I would reccomend everyone reads up on glycemic index's and how they affect the body and why as it will unlock a lot of mysteries to alot of peoples questions as to why we lay out specific meal plans,ect..... as far as simple carbs are concerned same thing there I usually have my guys/girls eating 3 pieces of fresh fruit per day but once again there are specific fruit choices as one would not want to eat a red delicious apple due to the glycemic index rating but instead use a granny smith! Also I think we will key in on the essential importance of Good fats in the next roundtable discussion as alot of people have this misconception that all fats are bad which is not the case. Good fats actually speed the metabolism. Hence why we use alot of OMEGA-3 sources such as white fish and Salmon,ect......... Now as far as the cardio debate I remember that all to well! lol yes i do make my clients do cardio as i would rather keep their caloric intake up there and increase activity level to burn the excess calories as opposed to restricting calories bellow basil energy levels as that is when your body will go into a catabolic state(once again supplements play a part in this) usually i will allow my guys to diet strict for the first 4 weeks then as they hit their first plateu I will kick the cardio in which is usually at the 8 week mark give or take depending on the client. but the cardio debate will linger on. Joe McNeil had Dexter do cardio for the first time in his life last year and kept his caloric intake higher allowing Dexter to come in bigger than he had in previous years. Everyone has a different way of doing it and there is no Denying that Skip has achieved excellent results with the no cardio program so it goes to show the same end results can be achieved with different methods. wyldeone

Ken "Skip" Hill

Damn.... I guess I can't argue that, wylde.

Skip

__________________
Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

Ken "Skip" Hill

Alright, who locked out homonunculus and ProDH?? Let em in!!!

Skip

__________________
Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

Ken "Skip" Hill

I wanted to throw this one at you guys:

IDEALLY, where would you want to have either yourself or your clients bodyfat percentage during the offseason? Please specify your measurement type, as well. I use DXA so when I say 12% I mean a "true" 12% and that is pretty lean, I think. It would be about a 9 or 10% via calipers.

I think that this level allows for growth as long as you are focussed on your offseason nutrition, rest and your training is as efficient as it should be. The added bonus is that you look like a bodybuilder instead of a sloppy pig and your prep will be sooo much easier on you both physically and psychologically.

Whast say you?

Skip

__________________
Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me:

TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com



TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com.

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

ProDH

Just to chime in.

I don't really have philosophies on bodyfat dropping, seeing as how I'm just gifted!
I usually put someone on a tyupical carb rotation cycle of diet and the only people I really involve myself with are those under 10% for men and under 22% for women. Even then, I am my own experiment. I find using a carb cycling routine works the best for me during contest prep. But I do use the carb cutoff points for the offseason range. I use a combination of low and high GI carbs for effect and my mood. Obviously I can come in super ripped and shredded with no cardio, but I feel I don't need to disrupt any more muscle breakdown than I already have. I do have people I take on, do some sort of HIIT training on cardio though. I have seen the verification that that method works the best for achieving quick results. Not much in the way of cardiovascular enhancement, but it does do a number on BF. If I add that in, I add it in early in the diet phase and monitor results up to the last 4-6 weeks and then cut it out. By then, the client should have the body reacting to increased usage of food nutrients like a furnace and still be in the "zone" for the rest of the period. Again, that's when I did train people. Now I just beat myself up...over and over!

-DH

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