Westside Training Template - Page 2

steini · 06-17-2005, 07:35 AM

Hey guys,

Quote:

I'm quite sure I have a relatively high level of natural GPP and recover slightly better than most, but nothing outstanding.

Could anyone tell me what GPP is?

Thanks in advance, Simon

Future · 06-17-2005, 12:01 PM

General Physical Preparedness. Basically, it's about helping recovery while putting you in better shape.

steini · 06-18-2005, 05:11 AM

Thank you!

That means, easy cardio or so!?

Simon

Future · 06-18-2005, 11:54 AM

Easy? Sure. Walking with a slight incline. Sled pulling.

This was my GPP:
push a car 40-50 yards for 6-8 trips
push ups bwtx50x2
STRETCH
I would be done in 20 minutes.

=S1K · 08-02-2005, 10:39 AM

Mike,

Couple of questions..

On a ME SQ day...say you use a pin pull or a GM for a main movement. Does it make sense to drop the other lower back exercise listed and replace it with ....say a leg press or even some leg extension...or even a light squat for that matter.

My thinking is that pin pulls, deads and gm's are already hitting the lower back...why do another lower back exercise ?

So ME SQ day ..might look like this

1. GM's - work to a max
2. Leg Presses or leg extensions
3. Leg curls
4. Heavy upper back
bi's and abs

This way you'd be hitting lower back , hams and quads...

and if You do a leg press or leg extensions, would you do them heavy or light ? Which would you pick as the best scenario? :

Leg Press : 2-3 work sets for 3-5 reps
or
Leg Press: 3 sets of 10
or
Leg Extensions: 3 sets of 10-15 reps

Any thoughts? suggestions or observations of what you see other guys at WS doing?

Also on the 2 heavy tricep movements on ME bench day , and the 2 heavy delt movements on DE bench day. You list 3 sets of 3-7 reps...Imma just gonna assume that you mean work sets? So in reality it would be a couple of warmup sets , then 3 works sets of 3-7 reps ?

Thanks for clarifying ....

Phil

**Liftin'heavy** · 08-02-2005, 01:28 PM

- If I were to do a heavy lower back movement on ME, yes, that would be it for lower back stuff for that day.

- Leg Pressing and extensions are assistance movements. I would never use them as a ME movement. I would keep my reps at 8-10 with the leg press. The guys at WS don't leg presses or do ext. They don't have them there.

- One shoulder movement on DE day with reps of 3-5. You're already warmed up from the speed work. I would just take a token weight to get the feel of the movement before I took a heavy weight.

- Everybody at WS trains a bit different. Some guys like a lot of volume, others do very little and leave. It's really up to the individual. The template is just that. You decide if you can handle the workload, you punch in the exercises that you think works for you, you decide how fast you want to get it done and nothing says you have to follow it to a t.

- I need a nap.

=S1K · 08-03-2005, 10:24 AM

Silly ! ... I meant doing leg presses as AFTER doing Heavy GM's ! ...not as a ME movement !...I'm not that dense...lol...

The ME and DE concept is pretty straight forward...

I think were most people bog down on WS training is the selction, volume and frequency of the Supplemental and Assistance movements...

Mostly because every where you look you see something different about what , how much and how many times a week to do your assistance stuff.

I think the point you are trying to make Mike....is none of that stuff is set in stone....You just got to go by feel and what you think your weaknesses are.... and to go by feel..

Would that be a fair assesment ?

Future · 08-03-2005, 11:36 PM

I think that is a fair assessment.

Use the template and tweak it from there. I found that with my own success particularly squatting.

craig57 · 01-01-2006, 10:36 PM

is there any problem with doing a modified westside template if you're new to powerlifting?

ive tried to figure out the program but i was wondering if all the exercises other than the big 3 on ME day are a couple reps shy of failure?

varven · 05-28-2006, 11:52 PM

Hello people,
Id like to clarify one point in regards to ME exs, recovery and ex selection.
I read a suggestion earlier about not using one ME ex for more than 2 weeks in a row ?

I realize its an issue of keeping the cns fresh etc.
but would it be ok to follow this sort of template for ME:

WEEK1: 5X5 me ex: box squat: use it for the whole month.
WEEK2: 6X3
WEEK3: 8X1
WEEK4: DE-LOAD/easy weights to recover

the following month:
Week1: new max effort ex: eg deadlifts this time aroud.
continues and basically every month i start with a new me ex. is this ok ??

thanks.

**Liftin'heavy** · 05-29-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varven

Hello people,
Id like to clarify one point in regards to ME exs, recovery and ex selection.
I read a suggestion earlier about not using one ME ex for more than 2 weeks in a row ?

I realize its an issue of keeping the cns fresh etc.
but would it be ok to follow this sort of template for ME:

WEEK1: 5X5 me ex: box squat: use it for the whole month.
WEEK2: 6X3
WEEK3: 8X1
WEEK4: DE-LOAD/easy weights to recover

the following month:
Week1: new max effort ex: eg deadlifts this time aroud.
continues and basically every month i start with a new me ex. is this ok ??

thanks.

ME means taking an exercise and hitting a max single or triple with maximum effort. Anything else is getting away from the program and what it is supposed to do.

idk · 06-05-2006, 04:17 AM

i've also been wondering that, as i think thats an interesting way to split the workouts. interesting because its not MWF alternating 2 upper 1 lower then 2 lower 1 upper the next week. also, i figured in my noobness that you could go MTTrF, upper on MTr, and lower on TF, as those give equal amounts of time for recovery. how possible is it to change up the split to a 2 on 1 off that can be done monday, tuesday, thursday, friday?

also, what is the logic behind not doing any of the actual big 3 in order to improve upon them? for example, what if you get stuck at the bottom of the press, wouldnt all the lockout type work be useless in the sense that if you cant get it past the bottom, you wont be able to lock out anyways?

**Liftin'heavy** · 06-05-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idk

also, what is the logic behind not doing any of the actual big 3 in order to improve upon them? for example, what if you get stuck at the bottom of the press, wouldnt all the lockout type work be useless in the sense that if you cant get it past the bottom, you wont be able to lock out anyways?

Listen.... Westside training is all about TRAINING YOUR WEAKNESSES. In todays powerlifting most of it is done with equipment. Hardly anybody gets stuck in the bottom of a bench press with a shirt on. It's usually the lockout that peters out. So that is why guys who use equipment do a lot of lockout stuff. Now... for someone who doesn't have a lockout problem or trains to compete raw and is weak off the bottom needs to do stuff that trains that weakness.

I don't know how many times I've said it but the Westside Template I posted is just that... a template. The only things that are set in stone are the ME and DE days, hitting a max effort exercise on ME day, and doing speed work on DE day. The assistance stuff YOU CHOOSE by determining what YOUR weaknesses are.

varven · 06-14-2006, 07:44 PM

I have another f#$king newbie question:

PIN LOCKOUTS(at different heights),
SAFETY SQUAT BAR SQUATS

are listed as ME movements.
Could someone explain them just a wee bit more, I am not certain if it is what I think it is.

My understanding of safety bar squats:
You set the pins at a particular level and drop down till the bar is resting on it. Then you shoot up from there. Is this correct ?

Pin Lockouts: pins are set higher up in the range of the squat, i.e. in a range from half way to full standing height, you descend with bar on back and come back up till you reach the pin height, thats one rep. is this correct?

Appreciate you folks efforts in helpin out us newbies,
regards
V.V.

**Liftin'heavy** · 06-16-2006, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varven

I have another f#$king newbie question:

PIN LOCKOUTS(at different heights),
SAFETY SQUAT BAR SQUATS

are listed as ME movements.
Could someone explain them just a wee bit more, I am not certain if it is what I think it is.

My understanding of safety bar squats:
You set the pins at a particular level and drop down till the bar is resting on it. Then you shoot up from there. Is this correct ?

Pin Lockouts: pins are set higher up in the range of the squat, i.e. in a range from half way to full standing height, you descend with bar on back and come back up till you reach the pin height, thats one rep. is this correct?

Appreciate you folks efforts in helpin out us newbies,
regards
V.V.

'Safety bar squats' should of been called Safety Squat Bar squats. It's actually a type of bar.

Pin Lockouts are for training the lockout in the bench. You set the pins at different heights or just below where you stall out in the bench and you press the bar from that point.

ThePhoenix · 07-09-2006, 06:38 PM

forgive my ignorance, i am completely new to powerlifting. how do you know when to progress with weights? is it like many BB routines where you just go by the feel or is there a systematic calculation of a new PR (eg. end the end of week three your 90% effort will go up by five lbs?). Again sorry for the stupid question I may have just overlooked.

**Liftin'heavy** · 07-09-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhoenix

forgive my ignorance, i am completely new to powerlifting. how do you know when to progress with weights? is it like many BB routines where you just go by the feel or is there a systematic calculation of a new PR (eg. end the end of week three your 90% effort will go up by five lbs?). Again sorry for the stupid question I may have just overlooked.

I hate 'systematic calculations'. They don't work. Definitely go by the way you feel. If I hit something for an easy single, triple or what ever, you bet your ass I'm going to move the weight up or go for extra reps.

JT1 · 07-24-2006, 08:51 PM

liftin'heavy and future i just want to say that i have learned much from your powerlifting trainin in the month that i have been on this site but could you help us out here with these questions? i know they look stupid and newbieish but i honestly havnt heard of them and i have 6yrs powerliftin exp (non compete as of yet)

1) what is band trainin, whats it for?

2) what is chain trainin, whats it for?

3) what is benchin with boards i.e. 2 board press?

thanks for your time cheers!

camarosuper6 · 07-24-2006, 08:52 PM

They are training variables to assist in developing through weak or "sticking" points, which are quite a big deal in powerlifting.

JT1 · 07-24-2006, 09:01 PM

camero6 thanks for the reply i kinda guessed they were trainin variables but my question still remains ie is "chains" as explaqnatory as it sounds in that a big ass chain is put over each end of the barbell to add extra weight and if so why not just use another weight plate each side? also how does this differ from "band" trainin and "board trainin" etc etc

camarosuper6 · 07-24-2006, 09:03 PM

Bands add heavy constant tension throughout the entire range of movement, while chains lock you into a certain range to address weaknesses, at least from my understanding..... but I could be incorrect.

JT1 · 07-24-2006, 09:16 PM

cheers camarosuper6 does any one have any clips of bands and chains trainin? and lastly i still dont know what "board" trainin is? do you train with a piece or two of wood under you or what? (kidding..unless thats what it is) cheers for the help

varven · 07-24-2006, 11:52 PM

Think off the physics involved, it will answer your question of what sticking points.
Board presses refers to a board of specific measurement being held on top of the lifters chest, the BB is lowered down onto the board where it is paused for a fraction of a second before being lifted back.
Concept being if you ahve a sticking point at just off your chest, using a 1 board press will train the muscles to explode out of this 'hole'.
The more boards you use, the higher off the chest will be the area where the lifter is training a weakness for .
For instance if at mid point I was getting stuck I guess I would be using a 2/3 board pres.
Chains, think of Potential energy annd the like.
When the bar is on the ground, There is less resistance, as it rises further up there would be more potential energy.
Or in the case of benching with chains, if a chain of specific measurement is draped around the Bar, There will be more resistance when the bar is further away from the chest than when it is at chest height.

I dont train with bands and chains as yet being a newbie but these are my understanding. Search up west side barbell articles.
Check out articles by Louis Simmons on Elitefts.com

JT1 · 07-25-2006, 12:45 AM

thanks v much varven that has cleared that up. just show that even after half dozen yrs exp i still have shitloads to learn cheers

**Liftin'heavy** · 07-25-2006, 02:56 AM

Sorry I saw this so late. Training with bands and chains are a good way to excel one's training and are excellent tools. Check out the exercise section on www.elitefts.com . They have a bunch of pics of different exercises with bands and chains and how to hook them up.

06-17-2005, 12:01 PM	#27
Future Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,853	General Physical Preparedness. Basically, it's about helping recovery while putting you in better shape. __________________ Team Skip Client

06-18-2005, 11:54 AM	#29
Future Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,853	Easy? Sure. Walking with a slight incline. Sled pulling. This was my GPP: push a car 40-50 yards for 6-8 trips push ups bwtx50x2 STRETCH I would be done in 20 minutes. __________________ Team Skip Client

08-02-2005, 10:39 AM	#30
=S1K Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 237	Mike, Couple of questions.. On a ME SQ day...say you use a pin pull or a GM for a main movement. Does it make sense to drop the other lower back exercise listed and replace it with ....say a leg press or even some leg extension...or even a light squat for that matter. My thinking is that pin pulls, deads and gm's are already hitting the lower back...why do another lower back exercise ? So ME SQ day ..might look like this 1. GM's - work to a max 2. Leg Presses or leg extensions 3. Leg curls 4. Heavy upper back bi's and abs This way you'd be hitting lower back , hams and quads... and if You do a leg press or leg extensions, would you do them heavy or light ? Which would you pick as the best scenario? : Leg Press : 2-3 work sets for 3-5 reps or Leg Press: 3 sets of 10 or Leg Extensions: 3 sets of 10-15 reps Any thoughts? suggestions or observations of what you see other guys at WS doing? Also on the 2 heavy tricep movements on ME bench day , and the 2 heavy delt movements on DE bench day. You list 3 sets of 3-7 reps...Imma just gonna assume that you mean work sets? So in reality it would be a couple of warmup sets , then 3 works sets of 3-7 reps ? Thanks for clarifying .... Phil __________________ - Press On ! Last edited by =S1K : 08-02-2005 at 11:26 AM.

08-02-2005, 01:28 PM	#31
Liftin'heavy IM Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 801	- If I were to do a heavy lower back movement on ME, yes, that would be it for lower back stuff for that day. - Leg Pressing and extensions are assistance movements. I would never use them as a ME movement. I would keep my reps at 8-10 with the leg press. The guys at WS don't leg presses or do ext. They don't have them there. - One shoulder movement on DE day with reps of 3-5. You're already warmed up from the speed work. I would just take a token weight to get the feel of the movement before I took a heavy weight. - Everybody at WS trains a bit different. Some guys like a lot of volume, others do very little and leave. It's really up to the individual. The template is just that. You decide if you can handle the workload, you punch in the exercises that you think works for you, you decide how fast you want to get it done and nothing says you have to follow it to a t. - I need a nap. __________________ Elitefitnesssystems.com bigmike@elitefts.com METAL SportsGear Xtremeformulations.com Hercules Gym, Syracuse New York houseofstrong.com

08-03-2005, 10:24 AM	#32
=S1K Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 237	Silly ! ... I meant doing leg presses as AFTER doing Heavy GM's ! ...not as a ME movement !...I'm not that dense...lol... The ME and DE concept is pretty straight forward... I think were most people bog down on WS training is the selction, volume and frequency of the Supplemental and Assistance movements... Mostly because every where you look you see something different about what , how much and how many times a week to do your assistance stuff. I think the point you are trying to make Mike....is none of that stuff is set in stone....You just got to go by feel and what you think your weaknesses are.... and to go by feel.. Would that be a fair assesment ? __________________ - Press On !

06-18-2005, 05:11 AM	#28
steini Bantamweight Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 170	Thank you! That means, easy cardio or so!? Simon

08-03-2005, 11:36 PM	#33
Future Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,853	I think that is a fair assessment. Use the template and tweak it from there. I found that with my own success particularly squatting. __________________ Team Skip Client

01-01-2006, 10:36 PM	#34
craig57 Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii Posts: 893	is there any problem with doing a modified westside template if you're new to powerlifting? ive tried to figure out the program but i was wondering if all the exercises other than the big 3 on ME day are a couple reps shy of failure? __________________ Trueprotein discount: CRS706 Comin' atcha like Cleopatra !!! Last edited by craig57 : 01-02-2006 at 02:03 AM.

05-28-2006, 11:52 PM	#35
varven Bantamweight Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 103	Hello people, Id like to clarify one point in regards to ME exs, recovery and ex selection. I read a suggestion earlier about not using one ME ex for more than 2 weeks in a row ? I realize its an issue of keeping the cns fresh etc. but would it be ok to follow this sort of template for ME: WEEK1: 5X5 me ex: box squat: use it for the whole month. WEEK2: 6X3 WEEK3: 8X1 WEEK4: DE-LOAD/easy weights to recover the following month: Week1: new max effort ex: eg deadlifts this time aroud. continues and basically every month i start with a new me ex. is this ok ?? thanks.

06-05-2006, 04:17 AM	#37
idk Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,385	i've also been wondering that, as i think thats an interesting way to split the workouts. interesting because its not MWF alternating 2 upper 1 lower then 2 lower 1 upper the next week. also, i figured in my noobness that you could go MTTrF, upper on MTr, and lower on TF, as those give equal amounts of time for recovery. how possible is it to change up the split to a 2 on 1 off that can be done monday, tuesday, thursday, friday? also, what is the logic behind not doing any of the actual big 3 in order to improve upon them? for example, what if you get stuck at the bottom of the press, wouldnt all the lockout type work be useless in the sense that if you cant get it past the bottom, you wont be able to lock out anyways? __________________ 1 oz. prevention =1 lb. cure Do not exist, LIVE! Jesus would total elite !!!!~DuckDuckGoose If apologizing works, then why do we need the police? Last edited by idk : 06-05-2006 at 06:52 AM.

06-14-2006, 07:44 PM	#39
varven Bantamweight Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 103	I have another f#$king newbie question: PIN LOCKOUTS(at different heights), SAFETY SQUAT BAR SQUATS are listed as ME movements. Could someone explain them just a wee bit more, I am not certain if it is what I think it is. My understanding of safety bar squats: You set the pins at a particular level and drop down till the bar is resting on it. Then you shoot up from there. Is this correct ? Pin Lockouts: pins are set higher up in the range of the squat, i.e. in a range from half way to full standing height, you descend with bar on back and come back up till you reach the pin height, thats one rep. is this correct? Appreciate you folks efforts in helpin out us newbies, regards V.V.

07-09-2006, 06:38 PM	#41
ThePhoenix New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3	noob question forgive my ignorance, i am completely new to powerlifting. how do you know when to progress with weights? is it like many BB routines where you just go by the feel or is there a systematic calculation of a new PR (eg. end the end of week three your 90% effort will go up by five lbs?). Again sorry for the stupid question I may have just overlooked.

07-24-2006, 08:51 PM	#43
JT1 Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Great Britain Posts: 3,501	liftin'heavy and future i just want to say that i have learned much from your powerlifting trainin in the month that i have been on this site but could you help us out here with these questions? i know they look stupid and newbieish but i honestly havnt heard of them and i have 6yrs powerliftin exp (non compete as of yet) 1) what is band trainin, whats it for? 2) what is chain trainin, whats it for? 3) what is benchin with boards i.e. 2 board press? thanks for your time cheers!

07-24-2006, 08:52 PM	#44
camarosuper6 Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 194	They are training variables to assist in developing through weak or "sticking" points, which are quite a big deal in powerlifting.

07-24-2006, 09:01 PM	#45
JT1 Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Great Britain Posts: 3,501	camero6 thanks for the reply i kinda guessed they were trainin variables but my question still remains ie is "chains" as explaqnatory as it sounds in that a big ass chain is put over each end of the barbell to add extra weight and if so why not just use another weight plate each side? also how does this differ from "band" trainin and "board trainin" etc etc

Sponsored Links

07-24-2006, 09:03 PM	#46
camarosuper6 Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 194	Bands add heavy constant tension throughout the entire range of movement, while chains lock you into a certain range to address weaknesses, at least from my understanding..... but I could be incorrect.

07-24-2006, 09:16 PM	#47
JT1 Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Great Britain Posts: 3,501	cheers camarosuper6 does any one have any clips of bands and chains trainin? and lastly i still dont know what "board" trainin is? do you train with a piece or two of wood under you or what? (kidding..unless thats what it is) cheers for the help

07-24-2006, 11:52 PM	#48
varven Bantamweight Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 103	Think off the physics involved, it will answer your question of what sticking points. Board presses refers to a board of specific measurement being held on top of the lifters chest, the BB is lowered down onto the board where it is paused for a fraction of a second before being lifted back. Concept being if you ahve a sticking point at just off your chest, using a 1 board press will train the muscles to explode out of this 'hole'. The more boards you use, the higher off the chest will be the area where the lifter is training a weakness for . For instance if at mid point I was getting stuck I guess I would be using a 2/3 board pres. Chains, think of Potential energy annd the like. When the bar is on the ground, There is less resistance, as it rises further up there would be more potential energy. Or in the case of benching with chains, if a chain of specific measurement is draped around the Bar, There will be more resistance when the bar is further away from the chest than when it is at chest height. I dont train with bands and chains as yet being a newbie but these are my understanding. Search up west side barbell articles. Check out articles by Louis Simmons on Elitefts.com

07-25-2006, 12:45 AM	#49
JT1 Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Great Britain Posts: 3,501	thanks v much varven that has cleared that up. just show that even after half dozen yrs exp i still have shitloads to learn cheers

07-25-2006, 02:56 AM	#50
Liftin'heavy IM Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 801	Sorry I saw this so late. Training with bands and chains are a good way to excel one's training and are excellent tools. Check out the exercise section on www.elitefts.com . They have a bunch of pics of different exercises with bands and chains and how to hook them up. __________________ Elitefitnesssystems.com bigmike@elitefts.com METAL SportsGear Xtremeformulations.com Hercules Gym, Syracuse New York houseofstrong.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode