T-MONEY

i think the scare with soy and bodybuilders was that soy isoflavones could raise estrogen levels. but from what ive read, soy isolates and powders have a very low isoflavone concentration and should not raise estrogen levels.

ive also read that these claims are complete BS.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...1200432&EDATE=

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nojoke

Would organic milk be better?....I know it would still be "designed" for it's species, yet at the same time, would also be free of the excess toxins (free radicals)?...

NJ

MsteveM

organic milk wouldn't contain trace amounts of antibiotics like non-organic does... my guess is it would be slightly better, but i'm not saying it would be good for you in any way. it's like a fat person getting the double ice cream scoop chocolate fudge over cheesecake rather than the double ice cream scoop chocolate fudge over cheesecake with reeses pieces on top.

you see, the problem with milk is simply that it is a hormonal substance secreted by the mothers nipples specifically to provide suitable nutrition for a baby...the species factor is less important than the age/development factor imo. just as nutritional needs change over time, so does the digestive system (so even if you had human milk, it still wouldn't be an ideal food source for an adult - but for children, it's an entirely different story). what would be better is to use something that is like milk, but actually is not milk.

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"Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it"

"if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"

Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right.



"Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

Heckman

Very nicely stated......

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deadlift0

Heckman i didn't realize you didn't like milk?

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Heckman

Thats it!!! I'm coming up to San Marcos tomorrow...

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deadlift0

Bring It On Old Man

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yeah, that's where I saw JT... the airport... do try and pay attention, old chap -RedSkull

WOW! If I were a cannibal DC is getting ketchup all over his boobies! -Future


I tell you I want to choke out most of the gym goers I see...- In-Human

Heckman

I will.....and I'll give you the benefit of leaving my walker at home!

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deadlift0

Lmao

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yeah, that's where I saw JT... the airport... do try and pay attention, old chap -RedSkull

WOW! If I were a cannibal DC is getting ketchup all over his boobies! -Future


I tell you I want to choke out most of the gym goers I see...- In-Human

nojoke

Yay!...That makes sense!...Thanks for the reply!


NJ

youngbb

so im a little confused on the protein powder question?
My feeling is protein powder (Whey) is so far from milk through the processes it goes through that it is fine?

SuperSport

Whey is a componet of milk, it is a milk protien. Whey appears to have a very high BV, and I have read a few studies where it appeared to be beneficial in wasting diseases or ER situations.

Is it 'fine'? Well, I really don't know if it is or isn't. Personally I like whole natural foods and would recommend egg protein, whole egg protein.

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Big sexy

QUOTE (http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/61/8/695)
user posted image

Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 2007;61:695-698; doi:10.1136/jech.2006.053157
© 2007 by BMJ Publishing Group Ltd

EVIDENCE BASED PUBLIC HEALTH POLICY AND PRACTICE

Milk and dairy consumption, diabetes and the metabolic syndrome: the Caerphilly prospective study

Peter C Elwood1, Janet E Pickering1 and Ann M Fehily2
1 Department of Epidemiology Statistics and Public Health, Cardiff University, Cardiff, UK
2 MRC Epidemiology Unit, Cardiff, UK

Correspondence to:
Professor P C Elwood
Department of Epidemiology Statistics and Public Health, Cardiff University, University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff CF14 4XN, UK; pelwood@doctors.org.uk

Objectives: To report a negative association between milk or dairy consumption and the metabolic syndrome and to examine associations within the Caerphilly cohort.

Setting: A representative sample of men aged 45–59 years in Caerphilly, UK.

Participants and data: Data on fasting blood glucose and plasma insulin, fasting plasma triglycerides and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, body mass index, and blood pressure were used to define the metabolic syndrome in terms of levels of two or more variates within the top 10%. The clinical importance of the syndrome was assessed from 20-year incidence of diabetes, vascular events and deaths. The relationships between the syndrome and the consumption of milk and dairy products was examined using data from both a semiquantitative food frequence questionnaire, and from a 7-day weighed intake record which had been kept by a 1:3 subsample of the men.

Main results: There were 2375 men without diabetes in the cohort. The prevalence of the metabolic syndrome was 15%. Men with the syndrome had significantly increased risks of a subsequent ischaemic heart disease event, death or diabetes. Negative relationships were shown between both the consumption of milk and dairy produce, and the syndrome. Adjusted odds ratio in men who regularly drank a pint of milk or more daily was 0.38 (0.18 to 0.78) and that for dairy food consumption was 0.44 (0.21 to 0.91). Milk intake showed no significant trend with incident diabetes.

Conclusions: The consumption of milk and dairy products is associated with a markedly reduced prevalence of the metabolic syndrome, and these items therefore fit well into a healthy eating pattern.

Related Article

In this issue
Carlos Alvarez-Dardet and John R Ashton
J. Epidemiol. Community Health 2007 61: 657.
Extract:
http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/61/8/657
Full text:
http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/61/8/657

Copyright © 2007 by the BMJ Publishing Group Ltd.


Also of interest may be the following studies -- also published at The Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health:

1. Milk consumption, stroke, and heart attack risk: evidence from the Caerphilly cohort of older men (June 2005)

QUOTE (http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/59/6/502)
user posted image

Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 2005;59:502-505
© 2005 BMJ Publishing Group Ltd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RESEARCH REPORT

Milk consumption, stroke, and heart attack risk: evidence from the Caerphilly cohort of older men
P C Elwood1, J J Strain2, Paula J Robson2, Ann M Fehily3, Janie Hughes4, Janet Pickering4 and Andy Ness5
1 Visiting Professor, University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland
2 Northern Ireland Centre for Food and Health (NICHE), University of Ulster
3 Consultant Nutritionist
4 University of Wales College of Medicine, Cardiff, UK
5 University of Bristol, Bristol, UK

Correspondence to:
Professor P Elwood
Llandough Hospital, Cardiff CF64 2XW, UK; pelwood@doctors.org.uk

Objective: To examine associations between milk consumption and incident heart disease and stroke.

Design: A representative population sample of men was asked to weigh and record their food intake for seven days. The total consumption of milk was obtained from these records. Details of all deaths and vascular events were collected during the following 20 years. Incident ischaemic strokes and heart disease events were diagnosed by standard criteria.

Setting: The Caerphilly cohort, a representative population sample of men in South Wales, aged 45–59 when first seen in 1979–83.

Participants: A representative 3:10 subsample of the men in the cohort.

Main results: 665 men (87% of those approached) returned satisfactory seven day diet diaries. After adjustment, the relative odds of an event in the men whose milk consumption was the median or higher, relative to those with lower intakes of milk, were 0.52 (0.27 to 0.99) for an ischaemic stroke and 0.88 (0.56 to 1.40) for an ischaemic heart disease event. Deaths from all causes were similar in the two milk consumption groups (relative odds 1.08; 0.74 to 1.58).

Conclusions: These results give no convincing evidence of an increased risk of vascular disease from milk drinking. Rather, the subjects who drank more than the median amount of milk had a reduced risk of an ischaemic stroke, and possibly a reduced risk of an ischaemic heart disease event. These conclusions are in agreement with the results of a previously reported overview of 10 large, long term cohort studies based on food frequency intake records.

Copyright © 2005 by the BMJ Publishing Group Ltd.


2. Milk, dairy products, and coronary heart disease (2002) -- here's a worthwhile excerpt from the full text:

QUOTE (http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/56/6/471)
user posted image

Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 2002;56:471-472
© 2002 Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHORT REPORT

Milk, dairy products, and coronary heart disease
A Tavani1, S Gallus1, E Negri1 and C La Vecchia2
1 Istituto di Ricerche Farmacologiche "Mario Negri", Via Eritrea 62, 20157 Milan, Italy
2 Istituto di Statistica Medica e Biometria, Università degli Studi di Milano, Milan, Italy

Correspondence to:
Dr A Tavani;
tavani@marionegri.it

...

CONCLUSIONS
Our results confirm that the intake of milk and cheese, and consequently of calcium does not increase the risk of non-fatal AMI in this Italian population, characterised by comparably low consumption of milk (average intake was 137 ml/day among cases and 148 ml/week among controls), but high intake of cheese (average intake was 36.4 g/day among cases and 40.0 g/day among controls).

Cases and controls came from the same geographical area, participation was almost complete, and only patients admitted to hospital for a wide spectrum of acute conditions were included as controls. The food frequency questionnaire was satisfactorily valid and reproducible. The potential confounding of several covariates, including social class status, tobacco, alcohol and coffee drinking, and calorie intake, was allowed for in the analysis, but did not modify the risk estimates, as the age and sex adjusted OR was 0.78 (95% CI 0.58 to 1.08) for drinkers of 7 cups/week compared with non-drinkers.

Hbs6

interesting study.

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I don't use, but I think anybody who has a problem with steroids should watch this... http://www.dailymotion.com/related/1...vz7_steroids/1

Sniggel

I have had asthma since I was 10. I have had skin problems since I was a baby. But these problems havent bothered me much until a few years ago. I need much more medication now for my asthma and the medication is not nearly as effective as it has been. I have more skin problems than usual and I also have developed allergies that I didnt have before. I have tried to find a reason to all this for a few years, and thinking about it, I have used a lot of milk the past years and also started using whey.
There could be a connection between a regular high-sonsumption of milk (and milk products) and my incresed asthma and allergy problems or maybe it is just a coincidence.
The problem do started at the same time as I changed my eating habits towards lots of diary products
Anyway I am seriously considering to stop using milkproducts just to try it out for a few weeks.
Damn, I love milk, don´t want to quit using it, but on the other hand if it is the major cause to my problems it is worth dropping it out of my diet.

MsteveM

the only way to know for sure is to try it

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"Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it"

"if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"

Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right.



"Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

Sniggel

bye bye 70grams of protein (milk+whey)
oh well, it´s worth a try, knowledge is power. If i learn something new I just have to adapt in someway or another.

Big sexy

is it just the milk or the whey as well?

IronReload 04

if milk is not a good source of protein? than why is whey a good source of protein? (pwo that is)


I only skimmed this article....allergies is a valid argument.....but I think using babies as their direct "thing" is not very smart.........I bet if you fed babies chicken and steak in a substantial amout comparable to the amount of cows milk, in a blender or whatever you had to do to get it in them, they would also die at some similar rate

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IronReload 04

I am not really for or against milk, i can honestly care less about it, i know theirs better choices out there, and i only use it "very" "very" sparingly.......but it is funny because i just read a study the other day stating when milk is consumed post lifting weights, protein sythesis is higher in subjects..........now i cant remember what they compared that to, it could have been a carb only group, or a whey only group, I dont know, but for what its worth, thats what the study said


it also has insulin like growth factor.....not sure what that is, but it sounds pretty bad ass if you ask me

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IronReload 04

o, and one last thing, I dont use whey protein powder at all

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Skips
What is your position on cottage cheese, fat free cheese , yogurt and whey?[


QUOTE=Skip;87003]This is a great article and it backs up everything that I have thought about milk.

Thanks,
Skip[/quote]

Ajack

That's it! I'm switching to breast milk!

weird but seriously, If you think about it. Should be possibly one of the most bioavailble sources?

-Ajack

TYSON1

FWIW, I drink fat-free milk two times a day ( on average ). No digestive problems and I'm making good, steady progress with my training.
I may be in the minority as regards milk. I like it and it works for me.
I'm not writing this to defend milk; drink what you want. Just stating that after four decades of drinking milk, I still use it.

conutr

I'm ass