My experience with Dairy and my opinions.....

**Ken "Skip" Hill** · 12-10-2004, 04:23 AM

Hey, for what it's worth, I am going to share my opinions based on my experience with using dairy products in the offseason and their shitty affects on me for the last time.

I am a creature of habit. I like to be very routine and quiet frankly, I can eat the same foods day in and day out for a year or more if it were needed. I think that this is why I find precontest to be so easy. However, I decided that this offseason I was going to be sure and have variety in my diet though still keep it very controlled and pretty clean. Hey, we all have issues and my issues are around control. I figured that the variety would be good on the brain and of course, would give me a better nutritional profile with different carbs, fats, etc..

I have been making gains like never before with a variation of DC training. I say variation because I am a control freak if you missed this in the last paragraph. Yes, I should probably do EXACTLY what the program calls for. However, I cannot relinquish that much control to anyone whether they are world reknowned, as DC is, or not. Again, these are my issues. : ) I have been growing like a weed and until I started closing in on 240 my gut was normal for offseason and my bodyfat level was not low but not too high, either.

Enter dairy products.

I thought I might play a bit with my diet and add some variety AND some convenient foods and milk jumped out at me. Great source of protein, relatively low GI even though you drink it instead of eat it and I have always enjoyed the taste of milk. Non-fat milk would work beautifully, I figured. Before I train in the morning I also have 1 cup of nonfat cottage cheese, 1 cup of pineapple mixed in it and 1 whole wheat bagel. This is my preworkout meal in the offseason. I have 12 oz. nonfat milk with meal 3, 4 and 6.

Now, I gotta tell you that in the last 5-6 weeks of doing this my waist must be up 4 inches, I swear, and my bodyweight is only up about 5 pounds. I am certainly not lean but my GUT would make Ronnie Coleman's waist look like Barbie's. It is getting to the point that it is getting uncomfortable. In fact, I tweaked my back today doing a leg exercise that I should have in NO way tweaked my back but my big gut leverages against my low back when I squat or press real deep (like I always have done) and BAM..... the left errector was not feeling all too good. Nevermind that I haven't been able to deadlift in about 4 or 5 weeks - in fact, typing this made me realize that since I have been eating and drinking dairy again, my back pain started almost immediately from my gut distending so bad.

I really think that the milk products "gum" up the GI and absorption and digestion of food takes much longer and that my distention is simply from the back log of food waiting to be digested. This has also cut into my water intake because I can't take in as much water as I would like due to the water filling my gut and pushing it out even further.

I am going to cut the dairy in a week (I am well stocked hehe) and let the gut go back down a bit.

For these reasons, I won't include dairy in my diet anymore. It has literally been a nightmare.

Skip

**SuperSport** · 12-10-2004, 09:20 AM

Skip, I am getting the impression as I read more about milk that humans aren't made to drink cows milk. It may have some serious implications in developing diabetes....populations that drink milk have a much higher incidence of diabetes...

Milk is loaded with sugar.....and of course many people are lactose intolerant. This would surely cause bloating.....

Their is some pretty gross stuff in our commercially available milk supply. Blood and fecal matter finds its way into milk....

I haven't drank milk for a long time....but I was using Muscle Milk as a post workout shake....since I have cut that out (even though it tasted great) my digestion seems to be better....

Big Ed · 12-10-2004, 10:36 AM

I have noticed the same things with milk... Just seems to make me hold on to fat and makes me feel bloated in general.

E

**Creator_11** · 12-10-2004, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Ed

I have noticed the same things with milk... Just seems to make me hold on to fat and makes me feel bloated in general.

E

But 2 cups of non fat milk mixed with 3 scoops of chocolate ion whey, sure does taste damn good. But oh well, it aint worht the bloating and farts

rackitup · 12-10-2004, 01:22 PM

yeh im cutting out milk to...but milk plus ON whey was so tasty!

maxmuscle245 · 12-10-2004, 01:23 PM

hmm i am begining to think i have figured out why my gut is looking like i am in my third trimester. try 1/2 gallon of milk/day.

do you use supplements for your calcium requirements?

Big Ed · 12-10-2004, 01:25 PM

Yes is sure does make a shake taste better!

**Ken "Skip" Hill** · 12-10-2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxmuscle245

hmm i am begining to think i have figured out why my gut is looking like i am in my third trimester. try 1/2 gallon of milk/day.

do you use supplements for your calcium requirements?

Yes, I do - religiously.

Skip

Bellina · 12-10-2004, 01:32 PM

The human body at birth does not have the necessary enzymes to digest cow milk. They have to be created. Hence why people who do not injest dairy for long periods of time may find when they start to injest it again may find themselves lactose intolerant, gassy bloated etc. I have found this out for myself and no longer injest dairy. When needed I use soy milk, yogurt and cheese.

ctgblue · 12-10-2004, 02:18 PM

I guess I am lucky that I don't have too many allergies to milk.
If I am drinking a lot of it, I notice my sinuses are more clogged, but that's about it.
I don't tend to get the bloated stomach unless I have a weird combination of foods.

BigWilly · 12-10-2004, 05:01 PM

Skip,

No dairy at all? Cottage cheese? The only reason that I would consider keeping it in my diet is for nightime slow digestion. But I suppose I could just pick up a casein protein mix.

BW

BIKEMAN · 12-10-2004, 05:06 PM

all I drink is soy milk

**SuperSport** · 12-10-2004, 06:51 PM

Not to mention Milk is 3 dollars and change per gallon.....

heavy hitter · 12-10-2004, 07:12 PM

i drink powdered whey milk. it tastes pretty good, is much healthier than milk(i.e. no lactose) and mixes pretty well with a shake. but i do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese.

SuzyQ · 12-10-2004, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavy hitter

i drink powdered whey milk. it tastes pretty good, is much healthier than milk(i.e. no lactose) and mixes pretty well with a shake. but i do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese.

Where do you find powdered whey milk? I haven't heard of that. I'm pretty severly lactose intolerant, and would like to find something else besides rice milk and soy milk.

rackitup · 12-10-2004, 09:37 PM

how "bad" is cottage cheese b4 bed----compared to the milk!!?? do i have to lose the c.c aswell???

wostok · 12-10-2004, 10:06 PM

i eat lots of dairy... milk and cheese is my primary protein(its cheap and we always got loads of it at home)... i can feel the effects of it like you described it, my stomach sticks out like shit... im not really fat either! just like everything i drink fills up my stomach and pushes it out... im thinking of cutting dairy also but dont really know what to use instead as an cheap alternative... (maybe protein powder but i dont want to have 4 shakes every day)

heavy hitter · 12-10-2004, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzyQ

Where do you find powdered whey milk? I haven't heard of that. I'm pretty severly lactose intolerant, and would like to find something else besides rice milk and soy milk.

http://www.legacy-meadowfresh.com/meadow_fresh.html
right here. 7.95 with free shipping.makes 8 gallons

Projectlifter · 12-11-2004, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavy hitter

http://www.legacy-meadowfresh.com/meadow_fresh.html
right here. 7.95 with free shipping.makes 8 gallons

on the order page, they state different prices, minimum is 30dollars

http://www.legacy-meadowfresh.com/mf_ord_form.html

but on previous page it says 3.98 for first time customers and 7.95 for second time buyers....is that for the pump pitcher or the whey milk?

heavy hitter · 12-11-2004, 01:20 AM

you know what. thats the wrong site. let me try to find the right one

eru · 12-11-2004, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSport

Not to mention Milk is 3 dollars and change per gallon.....

It's about $12 a gallon here -- for the organic kind at least.

I drink 2 cups a day and feel fine.

Maybe one of these days they will start selling bottled breast milk. Talk about the protein BV in that!

AssItch · 12-11-2004, 01:52 PM

Hmm. I have considered dropping milk too. If I do, though, I lose an easy 1800 calories and 90g protein today that I'll have to make up elsewhere.

DShores · 12-11-2004, 01:58 PM

I have found that by using raw milk I have no problems with bloating. However, with regular milk causes "gut bombs" and distention. At my health food store they also have low fat raw milk.

deepsquat · 12-11-2004, 10:39 PM

WOW! 12$$ a gallon, hell I get at gas stations for $2 a gallon ...but I would still rather live in Hawaii then Seattle ...even though it DOES rain more in Honalulu

**Creator_11** · 12-13-2004, 11:36 AM

I find this topic really interesting, and something I was suprised to find was that Markus Ruhl during contest prep will actually begin only consuming soy based protein from his shakes in order to eliminate all milk sugar from his diet.

12-10-2004, 04:23 AM	#1
Ken "Skip" Hill Judge, Jury and Executioner Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 13,166	My experience with Dairy and my opinions..... Hey, for what it's worth, I am going to share my opinions based on my experience with using dairy products in the offseason and their shitty affects on me for the last time. I am a creature of habit. I like to be very routine and quiet frankly, I can eat the same foods day in and day out for a year or more if it were needed. I think that this is why I find precontest to be so easy. However, I decided that this offseason I was going to be sure and have variety in my diet though still keep it very controlled and pretty clean. Hey, we all have issues and my issues are around control. I figured that the variety would be good on the brain and of course, would give me a better nutritional profile with different carbs, fats, etc.. I have been making gains like never before with a variation of DC training. I say variation because I am a control freak if you missed this in the last paragraph. Yes, I should probably do EXACTLY what the program calls for. However, I cannot relinquish that much control to anyone whether they are world reknowned, as DC is, or not. Again, these are my issues. : ) I have been growing like a weed and until I started closing in on 240 my gut was normal for offseason and my bodyfat level was not low but not too high, either. Enter dairy products. I thought I might play a bit with my diet and add some variety AND some convenient foods and milk jumped out at me. Great source of protein, relatively low GI even though you drink it instead of eat it and I have always enjoyed the taste of milk. Non-fat milk would work beautifully, I figured. Before I train in the morning I also have 1 cup of nonfat cottage cheese, 1 cup of pineapple mixed in it and 1 whole wheat bagel. This is my preworkout meal in the offseason. I have 12 oz. nonfat milk with meal 3, 4 and 6. Now, I gotta tell you that in the last 5-6 weeks of doing this my waist must be up 4 inches, I swear, and my bodyweight is only up about 5 pounds. I am certainly not lean but my GUT would make Ronnie Coleman's waist look like Barbie's. It is getting to the point that it is getting uncomfortable. In fact, I tweaked my back today doing a leg exercise that I should have in NO way tweaked my back but my big gut leverages against my low back when I squat or press real deep (like I always have done) and BAM..... the left errector was not feeling all too good. Nevermind that I haven't been able to deadlift in about 4 or 5 weeks - in fact, typing this made me realize that since I have been eating and drinking dairy again, my back pain started almost immediately from my gut distending so bad. I really think that the milk products "gum" up the GI and absorption and digestion of food takes much longer and that my distention is simply from the back log of food waiting to be digested. This has also cut into my water intake because I can't take in as much water as I would like due to the water filling my gut and pushing it out even further. I am going to cut the dairy in a week (I am well stocked hehe) and let the gut go back down a bit. For these reasons, I won't include dairy in my diet anymore. It has literally been a nightmare. Skip __________________ Leaner, harder, fuller, tighter, drier, more shredded, more ripped, more detail, more knowledge and more experience - Call it what you like but call on me: TEAMSKIP@IntenseMuscle.com TEAM SKIP clients get their protein from only one place: TRUEPROTEIN.com. "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." - Luke 12:48

12-10-2004, 09:20 AM	#2
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	Skip, I am getting the impression as I read more about milk that humans aren't made to drink cows milk. It may have some serious implications in developing diabetes....populations that drink milk have a much higher incidence of diabetes... Milk is loaded with sugar.....and of course many people are lactose intolerant. This would surely cause bloating..... Their is some pretty gross stuff in our commercially available milk supply. Blood and fecal matter finds its way into milk.... I haven't drank milk for a long time....but I was using Muscle Milk as a post workout shake....since I have cut that out (even though it tasted great) my digestion seems to be better.... __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

12-10-2004, 01:22 PM	#5
rackitup Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 752	yeh im cutting out milk to...but milk plus ON whey was so tasty! __________________ "Never give up form for weight, makes no sense, form is key the weights will follow..." "Get...it...done" RACK's Shitt HOTT Dogg Logg CLICK HERE TO SUBSCRIBE

12-10-2004, 01:23 PM	#6
maxmuscle245 New Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	hmm i am begining to think i have figured out why my gut is looking like i am in my third trimester. try 1/2 gallon of milk/day. do you use supplements for your calcium requirements? __________________ "The worst thing I can be is just like everyone else."-ARNOLD

12-10-2004, 02:18 PM	#10
ctgblue Heavyweight Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Behind you, waiting to steal your protein Posts: 1,871	I guess I am lucky that I don't have too many allergies to milk. If I am drinking a lot of it, I notice my sinuses are more clogged, but that's about it. I don't tend to get the bloated stomach unless I have a weird combination of foods. __________________ Lift big 2 get big TrueProtein.com Use discount code ctg001 for additional savings on already great prices mod at bodybuilding.com mod at iron-forum.com mod at melanoplanet.com Obesity related illness will account for more than 1/2 of all health care costs in the next few years. So why is the damn government waging war on the FITNESS Industry?? "Before you criticize someone, try walking a mile in their shoes. Because, then you're a mile away, AND you've got their shoes"

12-10-2004, 10:36 AM	#3
Big Ed Middleweight Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 593	I have noticed the same things with milk... Just seems to make me hold on to fat and makes me feel bloated in general. E

12-10-2004, 01:25 PM	#7
Big Ed Middleweight Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 593	Yes is sure does make a shake taste better!

12-10-2004, 01:32 PM	#9
Bellina Lightweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 407	The human body at birth does not have the necessary enzymes to digest cow milk. They have to be created. Hence why people who do not injest dairy for long periods of time may find when they start to injest it again may find themselves lactose intolerant, gassy bloated etc. I have found this out for myself and no longer injest dairy. When needed I use soy milk, yogurt and cheese.

12-10-2004, 05:01 PM	#11
BigWilly Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Here and There Posts: 922	Skip, No dairy at all? Cottage cheese? The only reason that I would consider keeping it in my diet is for nightime slow digestion. But I suppose I could just pick up a casein protein mix. BW __________________ Where the world's elite athletes get their supplements: www.trueprotein.com BW

12-10-2004, 05:06 PM	#12
BIKEMAN Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 62	all I drink is soy milk __________________ some where between heaven and hell

12-10-2004, 06:51 PM	#13
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	Not to mention Milk is 3 dollars and change per gallon..... __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

12-10-2004, 07:12 PM	#14
heavy hitter Heavyweight Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: peoria, AZ Posts: 2,300	i drink powdered whey milk. it tastes pretty good, is much healthier than milk(i.e. no lactose) and mixes pretty well with a shake. but i do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese. __________________ My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable. I'm unna eat your style, i'm unna eat your style's kids.

12-10-2004, 09:37 PM	#16
rackitup Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 752	how "bad" is cottage cheese b4 bed----compared to the milk!!?? do i have to lose the c.c aswell??? __________________ "Never give up form for weight, makes no sense, form is key the weights will follow..." "Get...it...done" RACK's Shitt HOTT Dogg Logg CLICK HERE TO SUBSCRIBE

12-10-2004, 10:06 PM	#17
wostok Lightweight Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 258	i eat lots of dairy... milk and cheese is my primary protein(its cheap and we always got loads of it at home)... i can feel the effects of it like you described it, my stomach sticks out like shit... im not really fat either! just like everything i drink fills up my stomach and pushes it out... im thinking of cutting dairy also but dont really know what to use instead as an cheap alternative... (maybe protein powder but i dont want to have 4 shakes every day) __________________ "my training routine? I carry big wheels, run trough the trees and push against the wall." -Zulu

12-11-2004, 01:20 AM	#20
heavy hitter Heavyweight Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: peoria, AZ Posts: 2,300	you know what. thats the wrong site. let me try to find the right one __________________ My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable. I'm unna eat your style, i'm unna eat your style's kids.

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12-11-2004, 01:52 PM	#22
AssItch New Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 53	Hmm. I have considered dropping milk too. If I do, though, I lose an easy 1800 calories and 90g protein today that I'll have to make up elsewhere.

12-11-2004, 01:58 PM	#23
DShores New Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Carlsbad Posts: 51	I have found that by using raw milk I have no problems with bloating. However, with regular milk causes "gut bombs" and distention. At my health food store they also have low fat raw milk.

12-11-2004, 10:39 PM	#24
deepsquat Lightweight Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washington Posts: 274	WOW! 12$$ a gallon, hell I get at gas stations for $2 a gallon ...but I would still rather live in Hawaii then Seattle ...even though it DOES rain more in Honalulu

12-13-2004, 11:36 AM	#25
Creator_11 IntenseMuscle Tech Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 7,785	I find this topic really interesting, and something I was suprised to find was that Markus Ruhl during contest prep will actually begin only consuming soy based protein from his shakes in order to eliminate all milk sugar from his diet. __________________ Official Web Designer of Intensemuscle.com

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