What do Dante and Mark Rippetoe have in common?

RockDiesel · 08-14-2008, 04:22 PM

.....20 rep squats.

Over at T-Nation they put up an interview with Mark Rippetoe.

Quote:

"T-Nation: Speaking of stupid shit, or rather, crazy shit, a section of your book Strong Enough?: Thoughts from Thirty Years of Barbell Training talked about the mental benefits of 20-rep squats. Can you go a bit more into that?

Rippetoe: This isn't something I dreamed up. Strossen's written about it. Perry Rader's old programs from the '40s and '50s involved 20-rep squats. 20-rep squats are not a beginner's thing, because beginners can't possibly do them correctly. But for an intermediate lifter who wants to take six or eight weeks and grow some legs, 20-rep squats do a marvelous job.

It does make you tough. But most people can't stand to do the damn thing. If you're doing it right, you won't go more than six or eight weeks. You just can't. At least I couldn't, and I'm kind of stupid about that kind of stuff.

For an actual, no shit, set of 20 squats, you're going to pick a weight that you previously thought was your 10-rep max. And you're going to do 10 reps with it. Then you're going to do the 11th rep, and you're gonna breathe a little bit. And finally, you're gonna finish the 19th rep, and Jesus is gonna be talking to you about this time.

Then you're gonna finish the 20th rep, and you'll somehow get it back in the rack, and then you collapse. You'll get tunnel vision and your hearing will change while you're trying to catch your breath. All kinds of weird peripheral central nervous system effects will take place.

What you normally find is that you're laying on the ground, and you think, "Oh my God, I'm so glad that's over with." And then after about five minutes, the realization occurs, "I gotta do this again next week with another ten pounds. Oh shit."

Most people can't deal with that for a long period of time. But it's terribly useful for short periods of time."

Great minds think a like.

Here is the rest of the interview:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...rting_strength

**SuperD** · 08-14-2008, 04:45 PM

Obvious plagiarism. That's almost word for word Dantes description of a widowmaker set.
You know what though. I'd rather not have to listen to the guy come here again and defend himself like time.

RockDiesel · 08-14-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

Obvious plagiarism. That's almost word for word Dantes description of a widowmaker set.
You know what though. I'd rather not have to listen to the guy come here again and defend himself like time.

Maybe that is why it sounded so familiar.

So this has happened before with T-Nation? Didn't realize that, and wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers.

**SuperD** · 08-14-2008, 04:58 PM

I half take it back. It was Mark Subinsky last time.

I do stand by my statement that that squat set description is almost word for word Dante's widowmaker description.

olinerules87 · 08-14-2008, 07:17 PM

dante's write up sounds 100 times more hardcore than ripp's

horsepower · 08-14-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

I half take it back. It was Mark Subinsky last time.

I do stand by my statement that that squat set description is almost word for word Dante's widowmaker description.

The 20 rep squat is nothing new...as the quote says, Strossen wrote about it...the description is similar to that in Super Squats, published in 1989, and I'm sure has been described as such for decades...

oscarthecrotch · 08-14-2008, 08:42 PM

Dante was time travelling and made the mistake of telling people of yore about the 20 rep squat. Its obvious, really.

Leifallan · 08-18-2008, 11:59 AM

Except from the heavy set before of course.

**trucelt** · 08-18-2008, 07:44 PM

yah im with horsepower....that's STROSSEN'S description from his book Super
Squats....

LandryP · 08-18-2008, 11:39 PM

I invented the bench press

DuckDuckGoose · 08-19-2008, 12:19 AM

peary rader :

Rader was born on October 17, 1909. He started lifting weights at age 12, but in 1933, he weighed just 128 pounds at a height of 5'11.5". Then he shifted his emphasis to heavy, high repetition squats, and built his bodyweight up to 210 pounds within about a year (he eventually reached 220 pounds). He was victorious in a number of local and regional weightlifting contests, and also became proficient at a number of other lifts (such as the one-hand clean) and feats of strength. Rader was the Midwestern Heavyweight Champion for seven years, with official lifts of 220 pounds in the one-hand clean and jerk, 280 pounds in the two-hand clean and jerk, and a squat of 450 pounds (without support gear).

Rader married the former Mabel Kirchner in 1936; they had two sons, Jack and Gene. Shortly after being married, Peary and Mabel founded Iron Man magazine, which was initially printed using a ditto machine that Peary had salvaged from the trash. Rader published Iron Man through the September, 1986 issue, which included a number of letters from prominent people in the field to celebrate the magazine's fiftieth anniversary. At its peak, the magazine had a circulation of 70,000. Rader himself published approximately 1300 magazine articles; most were in Iron Man, but some were also published in Strength Athlete (published by George Kirkley) and by Joe Weider (Dellinger, 1994).

In 1986, Rader sold the magazine to John Balik, who repositioned it as a hard-core bodybuilding magazine. Rader also published Lifting News for many years.

Rader died on November 24, 1991.

The 20 rep Squat is without a doubt one of, if not the, most demanding exercises you can do. You will definitely know what pain is all about after one set of these! It also is not all that common anymore. Why? Who knows. Maybe it's just too tough.

Most people don't like normal squats, let alone some mutant variation for 20 reps! In this article, I'll touch on the history of this great exercise, give you some examples of early routines and give you a routine to follow based on this exercise.

History Of The 20 Rep Squat

The 20 rep squat is also known as "breathing squats," having it's origin in Mark Berry's Deep Knee Bend system, dating back to 1930. This was a simple, 4-5 exercise full body routine based around squats - but not yet 20 rep squats. J.C. Hise is perhaps the most dramatic example of Berry's routine, having great success with it.

Peary Rader, founder of Ironman magazine, with the help of people like Hise, is generally credited with coming up with the first 20 rep, breathing style squat routine. Breathing squats for those who don't know, are squats done for 20 reps with a weight you usually do 10 reps with, each time you hit failure, you take 3-5 deep breaths and continue until you get to 20 while I have seen lighter weight 20 and even 25 rep versions, this one is most common.

**Doggcrapp** · 08-19-2008, 12:58 AM

I dont think SuperD was saying AT ALL that i invented the 20 rep squat and if any of you guys thought that.....(i dont know how you could read what he said and think that---thats weird).....he is saying the wording he used looked like something i said and Im going to agree....I read it and the first thought was "wow that kind of sounded like something ive either said or have said"

regardless....I dont care enough about it to dwell on it as of now

fade · 08-19-2008, 01:07 AM

great minds think alike?

**SuperD** · 08-19-2008, 01:09 AM

Dante thank you!

I would have gone back to reword my post but then it got quoted by someone so I couldn't.

Guys I do appreciate the "education". Honestly I doubt anyone can lay claim to "inventing" the 20 rep squat any more than anyone can claim they invented taking a shit.
Chances are someone somewhere did it beforehand.

Admittedly several folks have popularized the movement* over the years.

*High rep squats I am referring to here, not defecating

RockDiesel · 08-19-2008, 01:35 AM

Creating any controversy was the last thing on my mind when I posted this.

I just found it interesting to hear Rippetoe talking about them, and thought others may too.

Nothing more, nothing less.

btech · 08-19-2008, 01:44 AM

I could have sworn one of the baby roaches infesting my house was just crawling on the screen.

fade · 08-19-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btech

I could have sworn one of the baby roaches infesting my house was just crawling on the screen.

better call the exterminator

Sammich · 08-19-2008, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

Honestly I doubt anyone can lay claim to "inventing" the 20 rep squat any more than anyone can claim they invented taking a shit.

I invented taking a shit

how dare you

btech · 08-19-2008, 03:07 AM

20 rep deadlift?

Tight Five · 08-19-2008, 03:31 AM

What do Dante and Mark Rippetoe have in common?

They both have an 'e' in their name?

boilerroom · 08-19-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trucelt

yah im with horsepower....that's STROSSEN'S description from his book Super
Squats....

strossen stole it from john mccallum, he ll of stolen it from someone else. this is the way of bb

NovaZ · 08-19-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

Honestly I doubt anyone can lay claim to "inventing" the 20 rep squat any more than anyone can claim they invented taking a shit.

I invented taking a shit. I have pictures to prove it. And the offer to send them to you is still on the table, SuperD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammich

I invented taking a shit

how dare you

I cant be have any of this slander/plagiarism. Pics or it didnt happen.

kamal · 08-19-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btech

20 rep deadlift?

Last time i did those I saw many interesting colours and such. I sat down on a bench and just stared blankly at the floor for 10 minutes till a gym buddy nudged me to see if I would keel over....

MartyMcFly · 08-20-2008, 02:16 PM

Mark Rippetoe Does know his stuff... His books are excellent and I reccommend them to everyone to learn propper technique and the "why's" as to doing some lifts.

they are different people for sure though... Because on the website that Mark posts on, something strength and Iron or other i forget... i typed up a lot of questions for mark... and all he said to me was
"I'm not interested at all in bodybuilding marty. sorry"

I was rather "crushed" per say, but I did get over it. he's strength and nothing but strength.... not REALLY caring about eccentric phase and the like. But his books were instrumental in my knowledge of "the big lifts" He is whitty, with some good motivation, but then again.. when someone tries to write something "bad ass" it goes to show that Both Dante and Mark and the "super squats fella" (mark is a massive fan of his) know "whats up". Also, Mark did train with Bill Starr, the father of Strength training IMO. But enough of my rambling, what DONT they have in common?

- Mark doesn't like the leg press at all. calls it "the hip sled"

-doesn't believe in ANY direct arm work. thinks heavy rows and bench are enough. (once you become advanced likes dips and chins)

-Dante (from what I've read) is for fastest size AND strength, where is mark is pure raw strength

-Mark uses a lot of olympic lifts to use your "core" and "stabilizers" (he doesn't like the seated military that much)

some of that might be wrong, but thats what I've gathered. Wow I'm long winded today.

**ScottMcDonough** · 08-20-2008, 02:21 PM

Keep in mind Mark Rippetoe is mainly catering to young kids(13-17) trying to build basic strength on a few exercises... not exactly what we are going for here as everyone should have done that already before DC training.

08-14-2008, 04:45 PM	#2
SuperD Moderator/DC Q & A Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,886	Obvious plagiarism. That's almost word for word Dantes description of a widowmaker set. You know what though. I'd rather not have to listen to the guy come here again and defend himself like time. __________________ <NOT QUITE READY FOR DC EITHER

08-14-2008, 04:58 PM	#4
SuperD Moderator/DC Q & A Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,886	I half take it back. It was Mark Subinsky last time. I do stand by my statement that that squat set description is almost word for word Dante's widowmaker description. __________________ <NOT QUITE READY FOR DC EITHER

08-14-2008, 07:17 PM	#5
olinerules87 Middleweight Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the gym, the kitchen, or on the toilet Posts: 574	dante's write up sounds 100 times more hardcore than ripp's __________________ http://www.gymwiki.info/content/Index For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 1 Timothy 4:8

08-18-2008, 07:44 PM	#9
trucelt Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii Posts: 2,074	yah im with horsepower....that's STROSSEN'S description from his book Super Squats.... __________________ I dont think you'll ever find somebody at the end of thier days looking back over thier life saying "damn i wish I would have put in more overtime at the office"...life is about people and experiences.

08-18-2008, 11:39 PM	#10
LandryP Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 959	I invented the bench press __________________ Check out my journal, do it. http://www.intensemuscle.com/30796-p...c-journal.html

08-14-2008, 08:42 PM	#7
oscarthecrotch New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 22	Dante was time travelling and made the mistake of telling people of yore about the 20 rep squat. Its obvious, really.

08-18-2008, 11:59 AM	#8
Leifallan New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5	Except from the heavy set before of course.

08-19-2008, 12:19 AM	#11
DuckDuckGoose Heavyweight Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: far away from afghanistan Posts: 2,569	peary rader : Rader was born on October 17, 1909. He started lifting weights at age 12, but in 1933, he weighed just 128 pounds at a height of 5'11.5". Then he shifted his emphasis to heavy, high repetition squats, and built his bodyweight up to 210 pounds within about a year (he eventually reached 220 pounds). He was victorious in a number of local and regional weightlifting contests, and also became proficient at a number of other lifts (such as the one-hand clean) and feats of strength. Rader was the Midwestern Heavyweight Champion for seven years, with official lifts of 220 pounds in the one-hand clean and jerk, 280 pounds in the two-hand clean and jerk, and a squat of 450 pounds (without support gear). Rader married the former Mabel Kirchner in 1936; they had two sons, Jack and Gene. Shortly after being married, Peary and Mabel founded Iron Man magazine, which was initially printed using a ditto machine that Peary had salvaged from the trash. Rader published Iron Man through the September, 1986 issue, which included a number of letters from prominent people in the field to celebrate the magazine's fiftieth anniversary. At its peak, the magazine had a circulation of 70,000. Rader himself published approximately 1300 magazine articles; most were in Iron Man, but some were also published in Strength Athlete (published by George Kirkley) and by Joe Weider (Dellinger, 1994). In 1986, Rader sold the magazine to John Balik, who repositioned it as a hard-core bodybuilding magazine. Rader also published Lifting News for many years. Rader died on November 24, 1991. The 20 rep Squat is without a doubt one of, if not the, most demanding exercises you can do. You will definitely know what pain is all about after one set of these! It also is not all that common anymore. Why? Who knows. Maybe it's just too tough. Most people don't like normal squats, let alone some mutant variation for 20 reps! In this article, I'll touch on the history of this great exercise, give you some examples of early routines and give you a routine to follow based on this exercise. History Of The 20 Rep Squat The 20 rep squat is also known as "breathing squats," having it's origin in Mark Berry's Deep Knee Bend system, dating back to 1930. This was a simple, 4-5 exercise full body routine based around squats - but not yet 20 rep squats. J.C. Hise is perhaps the most dramatic example of Berry's routine, having great success with it. Peary Rader, founder of Ironman magazine, with the help of people like Hise, is generally credited with coming up with the first 20 rep, breathing style squat routine. Breathing squats for those who don't know, are squats done for 20 reps with a weight you usually do 10 reps with, each time you hit failure, you take 3-5 deep breaths and continue until you get to 20 while I have seen lighter weight 20 and even 25 rep versions, this one is most common. __________________ " You know a unicorn is just a horse with a dildo on its head. " - 5luke2 http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/14772000...7182c486f3.jpg

08-19-2008, 12:58 AM	#12
Doggcrapp Super Moderator/Roundtable Expert Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,789	I dont think SuperD was saying AT ALL that i invented the 20 rep squat and if any of you guys thought that.....(i dont know how you could read what he said and think that---thats weird).....he is saying the wording he used looked like something i said and Im going to agree....I read it and the first thought was "wow that kind of sounded like something ive either said or have said" regardless....I dont care enough about it to dwell on it as of now __________________ For Online Training Inquiries please contact DC@cyber-rights.net http://www.trueprotein.com-the highest quality at the rock bottom lowest price Want to create your own supplement line? We can create any product you desire (powders, capsules, dieting aids, testosterone boosters, proteins, you name it, we can make it for you.) Serious inquiries only please (supplements are usually at least 250 bottle minimum, protein 100 jug minimum) just email Carl@trueprotein.com

08-19-2008, 01:07 AM	#13
fade Intense Set of the Month March 2007 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 877	great minds think alike? __________________ My Prep for the 2008 Rocky Mountain Classic: http://www.intensemuscle.com/30222-2...irst-show.html

08-19-2008, 01:09 AM	#14
SuperD Moderator/DC Q & A Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,886	Dante thank you! I would have gone back to reword my post but then it got quoted by someone so I couldn't. Guys I do appreciate the "education". Honestly I doubt anyone can lay claim to "inventing" the 20 rep squat any more than anyone can claim they invented taking a shit. Chances are someone somewhere did it beforehand. Admittedly several folks have popularized the movement* over the years. *High rep squats I am referring to here, not defecating __________________ <NOT QUITE READY FOR DC EITHER

08-19-2008, 01:35 AM	#15
RockDiesel Lightweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 322	Creating any controversy was the last thing on my mind when I posted this. I just found it interesting to hear Rippetoe talking about them, and thought others may too. Nothing more, nothing less. __________________ GO HARD OR GO HOME!!

08-19-2008, 01:44 AM	#16
btech Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Shanghai, CN Posts: 1,182	I could have sworn one of the baby roaches infesting my house was just crawling on the screen.

08-19-2008, 03:07 AM	#19
btech Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Shanghai, CN Posts: 1,182	20 rep deadlift?

08-19-2008, 03:31 AM	#20
Tight Five Heavyweight Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 1,495	What do Dante and Mark Rippetoe have in common? They both have an 'e' in their name? __________________ Troponin Athlete "My methods arent for the weekend quarterback and they sure arent for the beginning lifter, they never have and never will be. This is for hardcore bodybuilders ONLY, lets get that straight right here and now" - the Kayser Soze of bodybuilding My wife holds bands tied around the head board...then I pull on her hips. It still doesn't work well but I like the view - Future 6 October 2008

Sponsored Links

08-20-2008, 02:16 PM	#24
MartyMcFly Bantamweight Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 242	Mark Rippetoe Does know his stuff... His books are excellent and I reccommend them to everyone to learn propper technique and the "why's" as to doing some lifts. they are different people for sure though... Because on the website that Mark posts on, something strength and Iron or other i forget... i typed up a lot of questions for mark... and all he said to me was "I'm not interested at all in bodybuilding marty. sorry" I was rather "crushed" per say, but I did get over it. he's strength and nothing but strength.... not REALLY caring about eccentric phase and the like. But his books were instrumental in my knowledge of "the big lifts" He is whitty, with some good motivation, but then again.. when someone tries to write something "bad ass" it goes to show that Both Dante and Mark and the "super squats fella" (mark is a massive fan of his) know "whats up". Also, Mark did train with Bill Starr, the father of Strength training IMO. But enough of my rambling, what DONT they have in common? - Mark doesn't like the leg press at all. calls it "the hip sled" -doesn't believe in ANY direct arm work. thinks heavy rows and bench are enough. (once you become advanced likes dips and chins) -Dante (from what I've read) is for fastest size AND strength, where is mark is pure raw strength -Mark uses a lot of olympic lifts to use your "core" and "stabilizers" (he doesn't like the seated military that much) some of that might be wrong, but thats what I've gathered. Wow I'm long winded today.