Artificial Sweetners

EBA84 · 08-12-2008, 03:32 PM

I was wondering what your thoughts are on artificial sweetners. I have debated this topic, more then once, with many people. I am curious as to what other people think about them and namely precontest. I would especially like to hear from Skip on this topic.

I will give my thoughts after the discussion gets going.

M Power · 08-12-2008, 04:39 PM

I am not sure precontest as I have never competed but I will say I am beggining to wonder about the overall health effects of basically consuming straight up chemicals that the body has no use for.

HYPNOSIS 247 · 08-13-2008, 12:52 AM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...t+misery&emb=1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Kp9NCxDg&hl=en

http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

http://www.dorway.com/

This is just the tip of the iceberg!!!

slide · 08-17-2008, 07:22 PM

This thread really didnt go anywhere, but I would be interested in your thoughts anyway, EBA.

Was this topic set up specifically for splenda, equal, etc (to include crystal light type products as well)?

-slide

bhman6 · 08-17-2008, 07:26 PM

if I had the mental fortitude right now I'd be all over this

Skip....paging Skip

Layne....Layne....Bueller....Layne

DCBliever · 08-17-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slide

This thread really didnt go anywhere, but I would be interested in your thoughts anyway, EBA.

Was this topic set up specifically for splenda, equal, etc (to include crystal light type products as well)?

-slide

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhman6

if I had the mental fortitude right now I'd be all over this

Skip....paging Skip

Layne....Layne....Bueller....Layne

This was bought up because Eric is prepping me for the florida states in 6 days and I asked him what he thought about artificial sweetners because I was eating atkins bars and sugar free jello and diet soda to keep from going insane.

Robb

IronBrendan · 08-17-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCBliever

This was bought up because Eric is prepping me for the florida states in 6 days and I asked him what he thought about artificial sweetners because I was eating atkins bars and sugar free jello and diet soda to keep from going insane.

Robb

I don't know about Atkins bars but I've never had a problem (or seen anyone have a problem) getting lean while consuming quite liberal amounts of artificial sweeteners.

That said, I generally don't allow myself to have much (if any) sweeteners during a prep until I very close to the end.

The reason for that being that:

1. The sweet stuff makes me crave MORE sweet stuff
2. It's just more expense

Atkins bars I believe use sugar alcohols which have quite a bit of calories. I'd stay away from ANY protein bar during a prep.

Sugar free jello does have some calories from gelatin protein. So I'd limit that a bit.

Walden Farms products are zero calorie and a lot of them (chocolate syrup, maple syrup, caramel dip) taste great. I used a good amount of them during the end of my prep and noticed no difference in fat loss. The Troponin guys let their clients use them too.

Will they give you cancer? Saccharin probably will but you'd have to consume an ungodly amount!

I try to use Stevia and Sucralose as much as possible as they seem to be the safest.

So I say have your artificial sweetener - in moderation.

All of that is my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

**SuperD** · 08-17-2008, 10:58 PM

they're all death...cept for maybe Stevia which is just a packet of diarrhea
It's a catch 22 for bodybuilders though because if you have a craving for something sweet what do you do? Sugar?

I have always loved the logic that even though artificial sweetners have been proven to cause cancer in animals they're safe for us because we'd have to take SO MUCH of the stuff to have any negative effects. I've used that same arguement myself for many years to justify taking whichever artificial sweetner containing products that I have wished to consume-protein powder, crystal light, equal in my tea...whatever it was...

I would tell myself "it's better than sugar"

As I age though I find my opinions changing somewhat and I think more about the health element of what I am putting in my body.

If something has been proven to cause cancer in an animal... I am not sure if I want that anywhere near me. Sounds a whole heck of a lot like posion to me.
If someone offered you a drop of cyanide but told you not to worry, it wasn't enough to kill you would you drink it?

slyfox115 · 08-17-2008, 11:04 PM

Good point D....so far from what I understand, it doesnt affect fat loss but from a health standpoint its still in the air.

force245 · 08-17-2008, 11:04 PM

What about Glycerol? Especially contest prep since it seems to pull Sub-q water into the blood flow.

bhman6 · 08-17-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

they're all death...cept for maybe Stevia which is just a packet of diarrhea
It's a catch 22 for bodybuilders though because if you have a craving for something sweet what do you do? Sugar?

I have always loved the logic that even though artificial sweetners have been proven to cause cancer in animals they're safe for us because we'd have to take SO MUCH of the stuff to have any negative effects. I've used that same arguement myself for many years to justify taking whichever artificial sweetner containing products that I have wished to consume-protein powder, crystal light, equal in my tea...whatever it was...

I would tell myself "it's better than sugar"

As I age though I find my opinions changing somewhat and I think more about the health element of what I am putting in my body.

If something has been proven to cause cancer in an animal... I am not sure if I want that anywhere near me. Sounds a whole heck of a lot like posion to me.
If someone offered you a drop of cyanide but told you not to worry, it wasn't enough to kill you would you drink it?

breathing in car exhaust at excess I'm sure causes cancer, but you probably aren't afraid to start your car every morning to drive to work

until I see any reliable human evidence proving their non-safety with normal consumption I'll stick with a few miniscule packets of sweetener and not worry about it

I should probably also quadruple filter my water, not eat grilled meat, only eat local fresh farm grown veggies, no wheat/soy/dairy/egg (leaving me with almost nothing), move away from civilization to avoid pollution, avoid sunlight at all costs, throw away my microwave oven, cell phone, and radios, never sit in front of a computer screen (whoops), and a whole slew of other things that are all bad for humans in some form yet we are exposed to on a non-stop basis

**SuperD** · 08-17-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhman6

breathing in car exhaust at excess I'm sure causes cancer, but you probably aren't afraid to start your car every morning to drive to work

until I see any reliable human evidence proving their non-safety with normal consumption I'll stick with a few miniscule packets of sweetener and not worry about it

I should probably also quadruple filter my water, not eat grilled meat, only eat local fresh farm grown veggies, no wheat/soy/dairy/egg (leaving me with almost nothing), move away from civilization to avoid pollution, avoid sunlight at all costs, throw away my microwave oven, cell phone, and radios, never sit in front of a computer screen (whoops), and a whole slew of other things that are all bad for humans in some form yet we are exposed to on a non-stop basis

That's just the type of response I would have posted about 10 years ago when I was your age.

I am not suggesting anyone worry about anything and personally I don't really care what you eat, drink or put in your body by any other means.

My point is very, very simple- Artificial sweetners have been proven to cause cancer in laboratory animals. This is, to me... as someone interested in Health and Fitness, interesting information.

Personally I give my best effort to not expose myself to things that are detrimental to my health... differentiating between those things that i have control over (i.e. what I eat and drink) and those things that I do not have control over (the air, crossing the road, etc...etc...)

I do understand your logic though. Let me see if I've got it-

"Don't worry about Artificial Sweetners because you could get run over by a bus while talking on your cell phone and if the bus doesn't kill you brain cancer'll get you anyway"

BRILLIANT!

DCBliever · 08-17-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by force245

What about Glycerol? Especially contest prep since it seems to pull Sub-q water into the blood flow.

Usually used the night before otherwise it causes you to retain a bit of water. If I am not mistraken

teezlr · 08-17-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HYPNOSIS 247

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...t+misery&emb=1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Kp9NCxDg&hl=en

http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

http://www.dorway.com/

This is just the tip of the iceberg!!!

Wow, Thanks!

HYPNOSIS 247 · 08-18-2008, 12:41 PM

^^^You just made all the time spent gathering those links worth it! So thank you.

jesus rocks · 08-18-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhman6

breathing in car exhaust at excess I'm sure causes cancer, but you probably aren't afraid to start your car every morning to drive to work

until I see any reliable human evidence proving their non-safety with normal consumption I'll stick with a few miniscule packets of sweetener and not worry about it

I should probably also quadruple filter my water, not eat grilled meat, only eat local fresh farm grown veggies, no wheat/soy/dairy/egg (leaving me with almost nothing), move away from civilization to avoid pollution, avoid sunlight at all costs, throw away my microwave oven, cell phone, and radios, never sit in front of a computer screen (whoops), and a whole slew of other things that are all bad for humans in some form yet we are exposed to on a non-stop basis

Also, it seems that every one of the afformentioned has a crowd of people that fight for it that will try their best to let you know how dangerous they are.
Personally, Im not afraid of death and would rather die than not be able to drink my diet mt. dew.

bhman6 · 08-18-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

"Don't worry about Artificial Sweetners because you could get run over by a bus while talking on your cell phone and if the bus doesn't kill you brain cancer'll get you anyway"

BRILLIANT!

it's not quite that simple, but I do appreciate the humor in your response

EBA84 · 08-18-2008, 02:46 PM

Thanks for all the repsonses. I will give my thoughts on them. Remember, I am speaking from my own personal experiences.

If it wasn't for artificail sweetners, I don't think I would have ever made it through one contest diet. As for them making me crave more sugar, they do just the opposite without the added calories. I drink at least a two liter of Diet Coke a day and probably use 20 to 30 packs of Equal a day. I have done this for as long as I can remember. I drink Diet Coke all the way till I cut my fluids before a contest. I never had any issues by doing this.

I am not going to sit here and say that they may not cause problems with some people though. I am sure they most definitely do and maybe I will see the effects of all the years of using them in the future. It is just for the amount of them I use, if I used sugar instead, I would be a fat slob and would never be able to get into contest shape.

As for them making you hold water, I have also never had any issues with this. I have used them on a ketogenic diet and they did not throw me out of ketosis which means they didn't cause an insulin response. Checked this with keto-strips. Once again, this is me. I know people who have had the opposite happen.

Bottom line is that I have never seen a ghost, never seen an alien, never seen a UFO and have never had any issues with artificial sweetners. To me they are a life safer come contest time.

EBA84 · 08-18-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

My point is very, very simple- Artificial sweetners have been proven to cause cancer in laboratory animals.

BRILLIANT!

I have looked at some of the studies and the amounts that were given to these lab animals. A hell of a lot in some of the studies. Give that much of anything to a living creature and I am sure there are going to be some problems.

bhman6 · 08-18-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBA84

I have looked at some of the studies and the amounts that were given to these lab animals. A hell of a lot in some of the studies. Give that much of anything to a living creature and I am sure there are going to be some problems.

that was sorta my point....too much of anything can kill you

grilled meats have carcinogens in/on them....but I can't imagine one grilled steak every few days will give you cancer

10 grilled steaks per day for 20+ years might be another story

EBA84 · 08-18-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhman6

that was sorta my point....too much of anything can kill you

grilled meats have carcinogens in/on them....but I can't imagine one grilled steak every few days will give you cancer

10 grilled steaks per day for 20+ years might be another story

Totally agree. Instead of giving the equivalent of what a person may actually ingest, they give them 5 pounds a day and then wonder why they get cancer. Too much water can kill you too. I am sure you heard about that woman on that radio station who drank all that water died.

**SuperD** · 08-18-2008, 04:32 PM

Oh. I understand now. This was intending to be a "I use artificial sweetners for my contest prep and they really help me get in shape and I haven't had any problems with them personally so that proves they're safe" thread.

My bad.

EBA84 · 08-18-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

Oh. I understand now. This was intending to be a "I use artificial sweetners for my contest prep and they really help me get in shape and I haven't had any problems with them personally so that proves they're safe" thread.

My bad.

Read my first post. I said "namely precontest" and where did I say they helped me get into shape? Where did I say they are safe? I said I personally have had no problems but that was just me. I was looking for others opinions. Did you actually read all the replies or was your mind already made up coming in that they are the devil?

08-12-2008, 03:32 PM	#1
EBA84 Roundtable Expert Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 449	Artificial Sweetners I was wondering what your thoughts are on artificial sweetners. I have debated this topic, more then once, with many people. I am curious as to what other people think about them and namely precontest. I would especially like to hear from Skip on this topic. I will give my thoughts after the discussion gets going. __________________ 2008 IFBB North America over 40 Super Heavyweight Class Winner 2008 NPC Masters Nationals Super Heavyweight Class Winner 2007 NABBA Nationals Overall Masters Over 40 Champion 2007 NABBA Nationals Overall Mens Open Champion http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/EBA84/

08-13-2008, 12:52 AM	#3
HYPNOSIS 247 Lightweight Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: BFE Posts: 291	http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...t+misery&emb=1 http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Kp9NCxDg&hl=en http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/ http://www.dorway.com/ This is just the tip of the iceberg!!! __________________ "Learning knowledge is an integral part of enlightenment because the more that you learn, the greater your paradigms of thoughts can be so you are not ignorant about the mechanism that you inhabit" -Ramtha

08-17-2008, 07:22 PM	#4
slide Heavyweight Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,530	This thread really didnt go anywhere, but I would be interested in your thoughts anyway, EBA. Was this topic set up specifically for splenda, equal, etc (to include crystal light type products as well)? -slide __________________ "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." http://www.whitehouse.gov/

08-17-2008, 07:26 PM	#5
bhman6 Roundtable Expert Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 5,367	if I had the mental fortitude right now I'd be all over this Skip....paging Skip Layne....Layne....Bueller....Layne __________________ benhartman.com optimumnutrition.com americanbodybuilding.com rippedacademy.com proteinreport.com myspace.com/optimumnutrition myspace.com/americanbodybuilding facebook.com/group.php?gid=9788498452 facebook.com/group.php?gid=7805419287 "Force yourself out of your comfort zone. You can't grow and progress without challenge and pressure. A diamond without pressure is a piece of fucking coal."

08-17-2008, 10:58 PM	#8
SuperD Moderator/DC Q & A Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,886	they're all death...cept for maybe Stevia which is just a packet of diarrhea It's a catch 22 for bodybuilders though because if you have a craving for something sweet what do you do? Sugar? I have always loved the logic that even though artificial sweetners have been proven to cause cancer in animals they're safe for us because we'd have to take SO MUCH of the stuff to have any negative effects. I've used that same arguement myself for many years to justify taking whichever artificial sweetner containing products that I have wished to consume-protein powder, crystal light, equal in my tea...whatever it was... I would tell myself "it's better than sugar" As I age though I find my opinions changing somewhat and I think more about the health element of what I am putting in my body. If something has been proven to cause cancer in an animal... I am not sure if I want that anywhere near me. Sounds a whole heck of a lot like posion to me. If someone offered you a drop of cyanide but told you not to worry, it wasn't enough to kill you would you drink it? __________________ <NOT QUITE READY FOR DC EITHER

08-12-2008, 04:39 PM	#2
M Power New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 86	I am not sure precontest as I have never competed but I will say I am beggining to wonder about the overall health effects of basically consuming straight up chemicals that the body has no use for.

08-17-2008, 11:04 PM	#9
slyfox115 Intense Set of the Month October 2008 Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 83	Good point D....so far from what I understand, it doesnt affect fat loss but from a health standpoint its still in the air.

08-17-2008, 11:04 PM	#10
force245 Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Alamogordo, NM Posts: 783	What about Glycerol? Especially contest prep since it seems to pull Sub-q water into the blood flow. __________________ So i'm old and married with three kids, help a brother out and use my code at www.trueprotein.com]discount code FRC245 If you walk in a gym and your mindset is basically two railroad ties and a boxcar short of a trainwreck......

08-18-2008, 12:41 PM	#15
HYPNOSIS 247 Lightweight Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: BFE Posts: 291	^^^You just made all the time spent gathering those links worth it! So thank you. __________________ "Learning knowledge is an integral part of enlightenment because the more that you learn, the greater your paradigms of thoughts can be so you are not ignorant about the mechanism that you inhabit" -Ramtha

08-18-2008, 02:46 PM	#18
EBA84 Roundtable Expert Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 449	Thanks for all the repsonses. I will give my thoughts on them. Remember, I am speaking from my own personal experiences. If it wasn't for artificail sweetners, I don't think I would have ever made it through one contest diet. As for them making me crave more sugar, they do just the opposite without the added calories. I drink at least a two liter of Diet Coke a day and probably use 20 to 30 packs of Equal a day. I have done this for as long as I can remember. I drink Diet Coke all the way till I cut my fluids before a contest. I never had any issues by doing this. I am not going to sit here and say that they may not cause problems with some people though. I am sure they most definitely do and maybe I will see the effects of all the years of using them in the future. It is just for the amount of them I use, if I used sugar instead, I would be a fat slob and would never be able to get into contest shape. As for them making you hold water, I have also never had any issues with this. I have used them on a ketogenic diet and they did not throw me out of ketosis which means they didn't cause an insulin response. Checked this with keto-strips. Once again, this is me. I know people who have had the opposite happen. Bottom line is that I have never seen a ghost, never seen an alien, never seen a UFO and have never had any issues with artificial sweetners. To me they are a life safer come contest time. __________________ 2008 IFBB North America over 40 Super Heavyweight Class Winner 2008 NPC Masters Nationals Super Heavyweight Class Winner 2007 NABBA Nationals Overall Masters Over 40 Champion 2007 NABBA Nationals Overall Mens Open Champion http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/EBA84/

08-18-2008, 04:32 PM	#22
SuperD Moderator/DC Q & A Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,886	Oh. I understand now. This was intending to be a "I use artificial sweetners for my contest prep and they really help me get in shape and I haven't had any problems with them personally so that proves they're safe" thread. My bad. __________________ <NOT QUITE READY FOR DC EITHER

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