Gatoade VS Kwik Karb

kanuki10 · 07-23-2008, 10:57 PM

I recently invested in some Waxy Maize Starch (Kwick Karb). It is wonderfully bland, but that is beside the point. Up until now, when I would get serious about my mass gaining diet and view food simply as a means to my goals, I would always just measure out Gatorade powder for my early morning and post workout shakes. (As an aside, at least where I am in my life right now, I am not carb sensitive by any means, though I have pretty always used carb-cut-offs after 6 p.m., by several standards I can eat a good bit of carbs without BF% gain, but I realize this is just me.) And while I realize the difference may be minor, is there an advantage to taking WMS instead of Gatorade at one or either of those times? Or perhaps some ratio of the two? I realize what is really important is getting a good amount of easily digested carbs; and some prefer white potatos, to bagels, to Coke. That is fine, and there is a time to simply choose based on preference.
But if I can now use both Gatorade and/or WMS, how can I do so in the most effective manner for myself?
Any opinions and/info would be appreciated.

milkstud · 07-24-2008, 01:03 AM

Waxy maize is, as I understand it, a bit higher in molecular weight than the dextrose that you will find in the gatorade powder. I think that, since you sound like you are relatively new, either will work, what is important is that you get enough to spike the insulin and help replenish PWO glycogen.

Maybe an expert can explain why the HMW is so important for Waxy maize, but I gather that it will stay in your digestive system less time and therefore will spike insulin sooner/replenish/fuel your muscles quicker than dextrose. But like I said, I don't think choosing one over the other will make or break you nearly as much as say missing a meal etc...

kanuki10 · 07-24-2008, 11:57 AM

Yes, it is a bit more of fine-tuning of my diet than anything else.
Out of curiosity, what does my seniority have to do with which carb source benefits me best?

milkstud · 07-24-2008, 01:01 PM

I meant new to lifting, correct me if I am wrong, but it just sounded like you were new... What are your basic stats?

The reason I said that is that such a small difference is not really as important to a new guy, who can gain 20+ pounds of lean mass in year, as opposed to a vet who has trouble with 5-10.

Sammich · 07-24-2008, 01:12 PM

Gatorade and all it cohorts (powerade, etc.) are garbage. They're all high-fructose corn syrup.

youngbb · 08-27-2008, 01:35 AM

i think hes talkin 'bout the powder, thats mostly dextrose
but yeah, the actualy liquid stuff in a bottle is shit

kanuki10 · 08-27-2008, 11:57 AM

Yeah, I tend to buy bulk powders, if anything.

**homonunculus** · 08-27-2008, 12:14 PM

Gatorade is some mixture of glucose, fructose and sucrose and I've never been able to find exact data on that (with good reason).

Twinlab's ultrafuel powder (pretty much impossible to find) was a glucose based powder (tasted great, too).

Waxy maize is a high molecular weight (HMW) starch (amylopectin being the primary glycogen like carbohydrate).

There are no direct published data on waxy maize with the exception of different versions of Vitargo (and those data are inconsistent b/c different starches were used in the different experiments), but the advantages to a HMW carb source vs. a mono- or di-saccharide source like Gatorade may include:

Faster gastric emptying
Faster glycogen replenishment post exercise.

I'd try this if you really want to get some personal insight:

-Replace the carbs in your diet with waxy (as much as possible) at each of your carb-containing meals for a day or two. Pay attention to how your muscles feel, your body weight (log this) and the pump you get during your next workout(s).

-Take a week off and go back to your regular diet

-Try the exact same with Gatorade (same day of week or same place in training rotation).

Report back to us.

-S

iron05 · 08-27-2008, 12:21 PM

Scott/Randy/Homon you know so much amazing shit i get tears of joy when I read it. That WMS experiment would be an interesting one, probably be rock freakin hard after a while of doing it but i def. would die on WMS only.

**homonunculus** · 08-28-2008, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iron05

Scott/Randy/Homon you know so much amazing shit i get tears of joy when I read it. That WMS experiment would be an interesting one, probably be rock freakin hard after a while of doing it but i def. would die on WMS only.

LOL - No use crying in your waxy maize, man... LOL

You could just do a scoop with each of your meals, hell even extra carbs above your normal intake and compare with the same protocol using Gatorade. (You'd be getting an indirect indication of how well the diff. carb sources increase glycogen levels at the upper range of glycogen storage - when you've substantially increased your carb intake.)

-S

07-23-2008, 10:57 PM	#1
kanuki10 Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 178	Gatoade VS Kwik Karb I recently invested in some Waxy Maize Starch (Kwick Karb). It is wonderfully bland, but that is beside the point. Up until now, when I would get serious about my mass gaining diet and view food simply as a means to my goals, I would always just measure out Gatorade powder for my early morning and post workout shakes. (As an aside, at least where I am in my life right now, I am not carb sensitive by any means, though I have pretty always used carb-cut-offs after 6 p.m., by several standards I can eat a good bit of carbs without BF% gain, but I realize this is just me.) And while I realize the difference may be minor, is there an advantage to taking WMS instead of Gatorade at one or either of those times? Or perhaps some ratio of the two? I realize what is really important is getting a good amount of easily digested carbs; and some prefer white potatos, to bagels, to Coke. That is fine, and there is a time to simply choose based on preference. But if I can now use both Gatorade and/or WMS, how can I do so in the most effective manner for myself? Any opinions and/info would be appreciated.

07-24-2008, 01:03 AM	#2
milkstud Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Redding, CA AND Salina, KS Posts: 1,276	Waxy maize is, as I understand it, a bit higher in molecular weight than the dextrose that you will find in the gatorade powder. I think that, since you sound like you are relatively new, either will work, what is important is that you get enough to spike the insulin and help replenish PWO glycogen. Maybe an expert can explain why the HMW is so important for Waxy maize, but I gather that it will stay in your digestive system less time and therefore will spike insulin sooner/replenish/fuel your muscles quicker than dextrose. But like I said, I don't think choosing one over the other will make or break you nearly as much as say missing a meal etc... __________________ I'm a POOR COLLEGE STUDENT and you need protein, SO DO IT!!!Use my discount code kyb999 at www.trueprotein.com to get 5% off the top protein avaliable. 10% off if you order 16lbs or more!! Re: Smith Machines: "shit all over them and make their frames tremble when you approach"- Sanatus My Journal: http://www.intensemuscle.com/27817-m...ournal-16.html

07-24-2008, 01:01 PM	#4
milkstud Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Redding, CA AND Salina, KS Posts: 1,276	I meant new to lifting, correct me if I am wrong, but it just sounded like you were new... What are your basic stats? The reason I said that is that such a small difference is not really as important to a new guy, who can gain 20+ pounds of lean mass in year, as opposed to a vet who has trouble with 5-10. __________________ I'm a POOR COLLEGE STUDENT and you need protein, SO DO IT!!!Use my discount code kyb999 at www.trueprotein.com to get 5% off the top protein avaliable. 10% off if you order 16lbs or more!! Re: Smith Machines: "shit all over them and make their frames tremble when you approach"- Sanatus My Journal: http://www.intensemuscle.com/27817-m...ournal-16.html

07-24-2008, 01:12 PM	#5
Sammich Heavyweight Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Murfreesboro, Tennessee Posts: 2,266	Gatorade and all it cohorts (powerade, etc.) are garbage. They're all high-fructose corn syrup. __________________ "AT 25 YOU SHOULDN'T BE WORRYING ABOUT YOUR BONER" -sniffy54 "PBTHBTHPTH Good Lord...." -Skip "Jesus Christ, if you are going to grab some ass make it some ASS and if you are going to grab some titty, make it a God damned TITTY." -Skip

08-27-2008, 11:57 AM	#7
kanuki10 Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 178	Yeah, I tend to buy bulk powders, if anything. __________________ Current goals: 1. Gain good weight and knowledge here. 2. Find the closest natty amamteur show and compete when ready. 3. Complete college during this time. 4. Become certified as a fitness trainer. 5. Build a clientel base.

07-24-2008, 11:57 AM	#3
kanuki10 Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 178	Yes, it is a bit more of fine-tuning of my diet than anything else. Out of curiosity, what does my seniority have to do with which carb source benefits me best?

08-27-2008, 01:35 AM	#6
youngbb Middleweight Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 525	i think hes talkin 'bout the powder, thats mostly dextrose but yeah, the actualy liquid stuff in a bottle is shit

08-27-2008, 12:14 PM	#8
homonunculus Super Moderator/Roundtable Expert Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 9,164	Gatorade is some mixture of glucose, fructose and sucrose and I've never been able to find exact data on that (with good reason). Twinlab's ultrafuel powder (pretty much impossible to find) was a glucose based powder (tasted great, too). Waxy maize is a high molecular weight (HMW) starch (amylopectin being the primary glycogen like carbohydrate). There are no direct published data on waxy maize with the exception of different versions of Vitargo (and those data are inconsistent b/c different starches were used in the different experiments), but the advantages to a HMW carb source vs. a mono- or di-saccharide source like Gatorade may include: Faster gastric emptying Faster glycogen replenishment post exercise. I'd try this if you really want to get some personal insight: -Replace the carbs in your diet with waxy (as much as possible) at each of your carb-containing meals for a day or two. Pay attention to how your muscles feel, your body weight (log this) and the pump you get during your next workout(s). -Take a week off and go back to your regular diet -Try the exact same with Gatorade (same day of week or same place in training rotation). Report back to us. -S __________________ NOW AVAILABLE: DAVE HENRY - XTREME MEASURES VIDEO!!! <<<WATCH THE TRAILER>>> -------- FOR THE ABSOLUTELY HIGHEST QUALITY SUPPLEMENTS...AT THE ABSOLUTE LOWEST PRICE... www.trueprotein.com

08-27-2008, 12:21 PM	#9
iron05 Heavyweight Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Climbing the steep mountain to the next level. Posts: 2,309	Scott/Randy/Homon you know so much amazing shit i get tears of joy when I read it. That WMS experiment would be an interesting one, probably be rock freakin hard after a while of doing it but i def. would die on WMS only. __________________ Use discount code KEG432 for that 5% discount at www.trueprotein.com "The brain can subjugate anything, even real pain." -Bruce Lee

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Sponsored Links