DC good option for me ??

Crankman · 07-18-2008, 06:26 AM

Ok,

Im a newbie, im 33 years old,about 190 at 10-12% depending on season.Busy regular jobs but no kids!! Trained since im 20 with some break but often like any stupid gym rats with no motivation, doing split and not knowing my goals and i had no clue about nutrition and dieting. For the last 2 yeard i really improved my physic by finding info on the web, kind of low carbs diet (ad) and training on ws4sb templlate.
Here my best lifts; squat (powerlifting style) 340
Deadlifts regular 380
bench 265

I know squat is my weakness,it look im more build for deads but anyway. I know those number are not huge..Oh im a natural lifter,never used roids!!

Its about the millions time i read about dc tonite, its a 3 days/week routine, sound good to me. Short but intense training, also something that i like. For the last few months i was dieting to look good for summer,(vacation this weekend) but when i comeback i like to get as big as possible(bulk cycle kind of) untill december probably. 3 days/week sound good to me and also i lplay hockey once and sometimes twice a week starting in september. But that just for fun, not serious anymore.

So what you think!

iron05 · 07-18-2008, 09:37 AM

"Im a newbie, im 33 years old"

there's alot of threads around here called stickies. check em out man they'll have your answers

KnowNothingGuy · 07-18-2008, 10:55 AM

I agree with Iron05. You should do alot more reading to answer your question. If you have enough experance you should be able to answer your own question after reading most of the infomation here. Just keep in mind that DC training is NOT for the guy looking to add a few more lbs of muscle just so he can look good in the summers with his shirt off. It's for guys that are already quite large but want to take it to the Freaky Huge level. How tall are you??

iron05 · 07-18-2008, 11:16 AM

DC sounds convincing and effective to everyone who reads about it. That's why everybody is infatuated immediately and wants to hop on it.

However, it takes some personal reflection and attention to what Dante is REALLY saying when prescribing DC to his trainees or those who want to do the program.

If you don't want to be absolutely, obscenely large. The guy who walks around in public and gets stared at for extreme size. The guy in the gym training in the corner with chalk on his palms and reppin' 405 on the incline not standing up looking around for attention.
Those are some of the dudes who are on DC. I'm not even close to that level yet, but I know what I want and I know DC will give it to me.

It is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT for n00bs.

**Doggcrapp** · 07-18-2008, 02:38 PM

Here is a question I have not only to you but to anyone who is in this situation because it boggles my mind totally.

How the heck can you spend 13 years at something only to end up at 190 pounds? 13 years of your life doing something hardcore to be ....... a normal guy walking around the mall?

I guess my personality is alot different than alot of guys on these boards.

If im going to spend 13 years playing baseball or basketball or even archery.....TRUST ME, after 13 years im going to be DAMN GOOD AT IT! Especially if I put all that time in to accomplish it. That doesnt mean pro, or winning championships or whatever, but definitely above average.

I dont understand that mentality to do something for so long and settle with being "mediocre"

Would you work 13 years at a job just to get to the point you can "scrape by"?

This is why I turn so many people away from DC training. If you dont have the fortitude to turn yourself into something special after 13 years of training, Im sorry your search for the "magic grail" thats going to give you willpower, determination, and an undying drive to "get there" isnt going to be found on this forum.

Want to know how i look at this? Wow that guy just blew 13 years of training that he is never going to get back and he is going to get to 40 years old, realize that noone ever asked him if he was a bodybuilder or a lifter (unless he made it a point to tell them)........and he can be satisfied with that?

Me? No F*&^ing way in hell would I be satisfied with doing something for 13 years to be average at it.

You might be pissed at what im saying.....so be it....I hope the 1500 guys reading this post think 2 things "Wow Dante is a real jerk sometimes but at least you know the guy doesnt beat around the bush, you will get the straight answer from him" and more importantly "Wow, I sure as hell aint going to be that guy, and waste 13 years doing something just to get up, look in the mirror, and see "joe mowing his lawn across the street" at 33 years old.

I dont want the guys in this forum reading this post who have been jumping around to different things (basically taking 2 steps backwards to take 2 steps forward) to follow your path.....I want this post I am leaving right here to be their wakeup call not to settle to being "someone who gets lost in the crowd"

If you want to be a bodybuilder, you can do it two ways

1)you got a window of opportunity and a path to do it right, and you set out on a strategy and accomplish it.

2)Or you think your actually doing something (which amounts to running on a treadmill=going nowhere fast) and you turn around 13 years later to find out the UPS driver, your 2 next door neighbors, and the 16 year old kid downstairs all dwarf you in muscular size......and you wasted away your window of opportunity.

**SuperD** · 07-18-2008, 04:15 PM

Dc training is not for everyone. Like the Marines, it's for the few. Though rest assured this is very hard work and you ain't getting 20 grand for college either.

SMERIDITH · 07-18-2008, 07:03 PM

Yeah Dante but he's 4' 7", so it's all relative....Seriously, I'm of the opinion if you need anyone on this board to give you permission to get big then you gotta take a good look at yourself....I mean do you really need approval from anyone to be the best you can be?....At anything......I'll tell you I did every f-ing training program there was from 1985-2004 (before I took my head out of my ass and read "cycles for pennies") but I still wen't from 180 to 250 (took me way to long to get there) in that time....Like SuperD eluded to this is not for the sheepish.....

TrojanLegs · 07-18-2008, 07:08 PM

I feel the same way DC does. I only wasted less than a year not knowing what I was doing, and not making good gains..and that pissed me off. I'm only 20, and I am hell-bent on being damn-huge by the time I'm 25.

Crankman - Evaluate YOURSELF before you ask if a program is right for you. Just like any other sport, you have to be dedicated, and you have to want it.

**bouncer dave** · 07-18-2008, 09:53 PM

at 33 with the right determination ..giving it all.. I do not really think he totally missed his window of opportunity to get big , did he?
he will never be all he could have been , but the window for some one is not shut is it?

tms1978 · 07-18-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouncer dave

at 33 with the right determination ..giving it all.. I do not really think he totally missed his window of opportunity to get big , did he?
he will never be all he could have been , but the window for some one is not shut is it?

i know what you mean, he's not exactly 'past it' in terms of age, but when you consider that he didn't get jacked in his 20's when his natural test was at its peak he's really gonna struggle being a 'natural' trainer at his age. i read somewhere once you should "fail fast", he didn't it took 13 years.

**Doggcrapp** · 07-18-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouncer dave

at 33 with the right determination ..giving it all.. I do not really think he totally missed his window of opportunity to get big , did he?
he will never be all he could have been , but the window for some one is not shut is it?

My question is this----what is going to convince me that he is finally going to get his head together at 33 and get on the right path when all prior evidence (13 years of walking in place) has proven otherwise

jesus rocks · 07-18-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggcrapp

My question is this----what is going to convince me that he is finally going to get his head together at 33 and get on the right path when all prior evidence (13 years of walking in place) has proven otherwise

because sometimes, not everytime, but sometimes, people stop being retarded and get their act together...somtimes they don't, though.

**SuperD** · 07-19-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggcrapp

My question is this----what is going to convince me that he is finally going to get his head together at 33 and get on the right path when all prior evidence (13 years of walking in place) has proven otherwise

Well definitely not our friends response in the alternate version of this thread-

http://www.intensemuscle.com/31393-d...option-me.html

**bouncer dave** · 07-19-2008, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggcrapp

My question is this----what is going to convince me that he is finally going to get his head together at 33 and get on the right path when all prior evidence (13 years of walking in place) has proven otherwise

I understand what you are saying totally. to excel in anything one needs the correct mind set.

with me:
until later in life work did not let me get on real size. the type of security i was involve with did encourage strength but size above a certain point was a disadvantage . I could not wait to be Abel to eat and grow...thas why I do not want to think too many negative thoughts.

Tight Five · 07-19-2008, 05:18 AM

I'm with you in your line of thinking here BD. I came to at age 40. I had lifted seriously for a long time prior to that but it was for sports functionality. Firstly football, then track cycling, then field athletics. I played representative level rugby, won a couple of track races, then a national masters field athletics title so my life prior to DC wasn't about being on the wrong path, but a different one.

In between rugby and track cycling believe it or not I threw in a few years as a triathlete, completing 6 Ironman distance triathlons (3.8km swim, 180km ride, 42.2km run) as well as 4 world championships in differing distances. Very early in the piece in tris I realised my body type wasn't suited to the sport. I was way too big but fuck it, it was a great challenge. I have had the chance to push myself to the limit physically in a number of sporting ways and anyone that things they get tired from DC might wanna imagine the mental and physical things you are going through 30km into a marathon when you've already swum 3.8km and ridden 180km hard before it.

That being said, I brought myself back from around 190lbs as a triathlete through track cycling, field aths and BB to nigh on 250lbs through 6 years of solid training, bearing in mind that functionality, not pure size, was a focus until I started moving heavy weights with only size in mind.

I know that genetically and age wise I may not be in an optimum position to 'capitalise' on DC, but I don't let those thoughts creep into my head. I like to think I have the training mind and enthusiasm of a 19yo, the wisdom of an experienced guy of 41, and the body somewhere in between. That's what keeps me happy anyway. I'm 13lbs heavier than I was at this stage of my prep last year so I guess that shows that I have applied myself to DC the way I feel I should have.

Now, enough about me.....sorry

All that being said I don't think age is a barrier to DC if you have the background. The OP doesn't look like he has the background. The only reason i say that is as per DC's point. 190lbs after 13 years of training doesn't display a background. Background gives you the necessary tools for the job of DC. Background, for me anyway, includes attitude and aptitude for training (i.e knowing what you're doing) and the ability to push yourself day in/out. That BW after 13 years doesn't show any background to me. DC is not for him

Beefsalad · 07-19-2008, 09:42 AM

I agree with all that is said. At this point you don't have much to show for it. What do you think DC will provide? It's not too late because of your age, although you missed some good growth years. You simply didn't invest what you need to get the results you want. This takes studying, learning, dilligance, application, mind-numbing repitition with massive food intake and bustass weightlifting. You have to really f-ing want it! Bad! It must be on your mind daily to where you visualize your lifts see yourself growing to the tank you want to be. You seem to not fit this category if your at 190 thirteen years later. Sorry if I offended you, just giving you the truth.

**bouncer dave** · 07-19-2008, 08:49 PM

TF your background shows willing to ex ell in everything physical.

wakejump4me · 07-19-2008, 09:16 PM

what about Beef ? would that be a solution ?

wake

Tight Five · 07-20-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouncer dave

TF your background shows willing to ex ell in everything physical.

Aw shucks, thanks. A lot of it was just giving something a red hot go until you worked out that you didn't want to do it anymore.

My triathlon career ended about 1/2 way through a 27km mountain running race. It was a lovely Sunday morning and I thought 'fuck it, I hate this. I could have slept in this morning'. I walked the rest of the race and by the Wednesday had taken up track riding

tms1978 · 07-20-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tight Five

Aw shucks, thanks. A lot of it was just giving something a red hot go until you worked out that you didn't want to do it anymore.

My triathlon career ended about 1/2 way through a 27km mountain running race. It was a lovely Sunday morning and I thought 'fuck it, I hate this. I could have slept in this morning'. I walked the rest of the race and by the Wednesday had taken up track riding

lol at everyone standing around saying "where's he got to?" while your strolling along thinking what your next sport will be!

Tight Five · 07-20-2008, 08:15 AM

You know in the walking I was doing in the back half of the race I thought to myself that I'd always wanted to give track cycling a go as I thought it was better for my body type......and on the Wednesday I was!!

dhickey · 07-21-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggcrapp

My question is this----what is going to convince me that he is finally going to get his head together at 33 and get on the right path when all prior evidence (13 years of walking in place) has proven otherwise

We all have different priorities at different parts of our lives. Maybe lifting wasn't the focus of his life. Have you spent 13 years of your life driving a car? Are you an indy car driver and a champion?

dhickey · 07-21-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperD

Dc training is not for everyone. Like the Marines, it's for the few. Though rest assured this is very hard work and you ain't getting 20 grand for college either.

Actually the program is pretty accessable. It's a well researched, well organized, and well writen program. There's no reason why anyone couldn't use it. Like any program, you will get out of it what you put in.

It's actually a easy program to understand and implement. None of concepts are new but they are put together better than most would on their own. Even seasoned strength coaches. Even if you didn't follow it to the t there are many great aspects you can implement into a program that better fits your needs.

For example, if someone wanted to focus on limit strength rather than uncompromising size, would looking in DC be a waste of time. Hardly. Focus on core lifts, reduce focus on machines, use RP for all but main lifts, lower rep ranges and it would be good powerlifting program.

Take someone like me. I travel for 3 or 4 days every week. When I am home I minize volume so I can recover and lift again before traveling again. The workout before a trip I add a few extra sets of the primary exercise knowing that I have a few extra days to recover.

A better question to start this tread would have been

"I really like what I've read on DC training. Any advice for someone with "x" schedule and "y" goals?"

A better answer for some one that didn't ask the appropriat questions would have been

"What type of time can you commit to lifting and what are your overall goals?"

07-18-2008, 06:26 AM	#1
Crankman New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3	DC good option for me ?? Ok, Im a newbie, im 33 years old,about 190 at 10-12% depending on season.Busy regular jobs but no kids!! Trained since im 20 with some break but often like any stupid gym rats with no motivation, doing split and not knowing my goals and i had no clue about nutrition and dieting. For the last 2 yeard i really improved my physic by finding info on the web, kind of low carbs diet (ad) and training on ws4sb templlate. Here my best lifts; squat (powerlifting style) 340 Deadlifts regular 380 bench 265 I know squat is my weakness,it look im more build for deads but anyway. I know those number are not huge..Oh im a natural lifter,never used roids!! Its about the millions time i read about dc tonite, its a 3 days/week routine, sound good to me. Short but intense training, also something that i like. For the last few months i was dieting to look good for summer,(vacation this weekend) but when i comeback i like to get as big as possible(bulk cycle kind of) untill december probably. 3 days/week sound good to me and also i lplay hockey once and sometimes twice a week starting in september. But that just for fun, not serious anymore. So what you think!

07-18-2008, 09:37 AM	#2
iron05 Heavyweight Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Climbing the steep mountain to the next level. Posts: 2,309	"Im a newbie, im 33 years old" there's alot of threads around here called stickies. check em out man they'll have your answers __________________ Use discount code KEG432 for that 5% discount at www.trueprotein.com "The brain can subjugate anything, even real pain." -Bruce Lee

07-18-2008, 10:55 AM	#3
KnowNothingGuy Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 854	I agree with Iron05. You should do alot more reading to answer your question. If you have enough experance you should be able to answer your own question after reading most of the infomation here. Just keep in mind that DC training is NOT for the guy looking to add a few more lbs of muscle just so he can look good in the summers with his shirt off. It's for guys that are already quite large but want to take it to the Freaky Huge level. How tall are you?? __________________

07-18-2008, 11:16 AM	#4
iron05 Heavyweight Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Climbing the steep mountain to the next level. Posts: 2,309	DC sounds convincing and effective to everyone who reads about it. That's why everybody is infatuated immediately and wants to hop on it. However, it takes some personal reflection and attention to what Dante is REALLY saying when prescribing DC to his trainees or those who want to do the program. If you don't want to be absolutely, obscenely large. The guy who walks around in public and gets stared at for extreme size. The guy in the gym training in the corner with chalk on his palms and reppin' 405 on the incline not standing up looking around for attention. Those are some of the dudes who are on DC. I'm not even close to that level yet, but I know what I want and I know DC will give it to me. It is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT for n00bs. __________________ Use discount code KEG432 for that 5% discount at www.trueprotein.com "The brain can subjugate anything, even real pain." -Bruce Lee

07-18-2008, 02:38 PM	#5
Doggcrapp Super Moderator/Roundtable Expert Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,789	Here is a question I have not only to you but to anyone who is in this situation because it boggles my mind totally. How the heck can you spend 13 years at something only to end up at 190 pounds? 13 years of your life doing something hardcore to be ....... a normal guy walking around the mall? I guess my personality is alot different than alot of guys on these boards. If im going to spend 13 years playing baseball or basketball or even archery.....TRUST ME, after 13 years im going to be DAMN GOOD AT IT! Especially if I put all that time in to accomplish it. That doesnt mean pro, or winning championships or whatever, but definitely above average. I dont understand that mentality to do something for so long and settle with being "mediocre" Would you work 13 years at a job just to get to the point you can "scrape by"? This is why I turn so many people away from DC training. If you dont have the fortitude to turn yourself into something special after 13 years of training, Im sorry your search for the "magic grail" thats going to give you willpower, determination, and an undying drive to "get there" isnt going to be found on this forum. Want to know how i look at this? Wow that guy just blew 13 years of training that he is never going to get back and he is going to get to 40 years old, realize that noone ever asked him if he was a bodybuilder or a lifter (unless he made it a point to tell them)........and he can be satisfied with that? Me? No F&^ing way in hell would I be satisfied with doing something for 13 years to be average at it. You might be pissed at what im saying.....so be it....I hope the 1500 guys reading this post think 2 things "Wow Dante is a real jerk sometimes but at least you know the guy doesnt beat around the bush, you will get the straight answer from him" and more importantly "Wow, I sure as hell aint going to be that guy, and waste 13 years doing something just to get up, look in the mirror, and see "joe mowing his lawn across the street" at 33 years old. I dont want the guys in this forum reading this post who have been jumping around to different things (basically taking 2 steps backwards to take 2 steps forward) to follow your path.....I want this post I am leaving right here to be their wakeup call not to settle to being "someone who gets lost in the crowd" If you want to be a bodybuilder, you can do it two ways 1)you got a window of opportunity and a path to do it right, and you set out on a strategy and accomplish it. 2)Or you think your actually doing something (which amounts to running on a treadmill=going nowhere fast) and you turn around 13 years later to find out the UPS driver, your 2 next door neighbors, and the 16 year old kid downstairs all dwarf you in muscular size......and you wasted away your window of opportunity. __________________ For Online Training Inquiries please contact DC@cyber-rights.net http://www.trueprotein.com-the highest quality at the rock bottom lowest price* Want to create your own supplement line? We can create any product you desire (powders, capsules, dieting aids, testosterone boosters, proteins, you name it, we can make it for you.) Serious inquiries only please (supplements are usually at least 250 bottle minimum, protein 100 jug minimum) just email Carl@trueprotein.com Last edited by Doggcrapp : 07-18-2008 at 02:56 PM.

07-18-2008, 04:15 PM	#6
SuperD Moderator/DC Q & A Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,886	Dc training is not for everyone. Like the Marines, it's for the few. Though rest assured this is very hard work and you ain't getting 20 grand for college either. __________________ <NOT QUITE READY FOR DC EITHER

07-18-2008, 07:03 PM	#7
SMERIDITH Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: SANTA MARIA,CA Posts: 113	Yeah Dante but he's 4' 7", so it's all relative....Seriously, I'm of the opinion if you need anyone on this board to give you permission to get big then you gotta take a good look at yourself....I mean do you really need approval from anyone to be the best you can be?....At anything......I'll tell you I did every f-ing training program there was from 1985-2004 (before I took my head out of my ass and read "cycles for pennies") but I still wen't from 180 to 250 (took me way to long to get there) in that time....Like SuperD eluded to this is not for the sheepish.....

07-18-2008, 07:08 PM	#8
TrojanLegs New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 74	I feel the same way DC does. I only wasted less than a year not knowing what I was doing, and not making good gains..and that pissed me off. I'm only 20, and I am hell-bent on being damn-huge by the time I'm 25. Crankman - Evaluate YOURSELF before you ask if a program is right for you. Just like any other sport, you have to be dedicated, and you have to want it.

07-18-2008, 09:53 PM	#9
bouncer dave Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: melbourne australia Posts: 2,720	at 33 with the right determination ..giving it all.. I do not really think he totally missed his window of opportunity to get big , did he? he will never be all he could have been , but the window for some one is not shut is it? __________________ old family red nose "The guy with the biggest butt lifts the biggest weights." — Paul Anderson Waiting for true protein down under

07-19-2008, 05:18 AM	#15
Tight Five Heavyweight Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 1,495	I'm with you in your line of thinking here BD. I came to at age 40. I had lifted seriously for a long time prior to that but it was for sports functionality. Firstly football, then track cycling, then field athletics. I played representative level rugby, won a couple of track races, then a national masters field athletics title so my life prior to DC wasn't about being on the wrong path, but a different one. In between rugby and track cycling believe it or not I threw in a few years as a triathlete, completing 6 Ironman distance triathlons (3.8km swim, 180km ride, 42.2km run) as well as 4 world championships in differing distances. Very early in the piece in tris I realised my body type wasn't suited to the sport. I was way too big but fuck it, it was a great challenge. I have had the chance to push myself to the limit physically in a number of sporting ways and anyone that things they get tired from DC might wanna imagine the mental and physical things you are going through 30km into a marathon when you've already swum 3.8km and ridden 180km hard before it. That being said, I brought myself back from around 190lbs as a triathlete through track cycling, field aths and BB to nigh on 250lbs through 6 years of solid training, bearing in mind that functionality, not pure size, was a focus until I started moving heavy weights with only size in mind. I know that genetically and age wise I may not be in an optimum position to 'capitalise' on DC, but I don't let those thoughts creep into my head. I like to think I have the training mind and enthusiasm of a 19yo, the wisdom of an experienced guy of 41, and the body somewhere in between. That's what keeps me happy anyway. I'm 13lbs heavier than I was at this stage of my prep last year so I guess that shows that I have applied myself to DC the way I feel I should have. Now, enough about me.....sorry All that being said I don't think age is a barrier to DC if you have the background. The OP doesn't look like he has the background. The only reason i say that is as per DC's point. 190lbs after 13 years of training doesn't display a background. Background gives you the necessary tools for the job of DC. Background, for me anyway, includes attitude and aptitude for training (i.e knowing what you're doing) and the ability to push yourself day in/out. That BW after 13 years doesn't show any background to me. DC is not for him __________________ Troponin Athlete "My methods arent for the weekend quarterback and they sure arent for the beginning lifter, they never have and never will be. This is for hardcore bodybuilders ONLY, lets get that straight right here and now" - the Kayser Soze of bodybuilding My wife holds bands tied around the head board...then I pull on her hips. It still doesn't work well but I like the view - Future 6 October 2008 Last edited by Tight Five : 07-19-2008 at 05:21 AM.

07-19-2008, 09:42 AM	#16
Beefsalad Bantamweight Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 162	I agree with all that is said. At this point you don't have much to show for it. What do you think DC will provide? It's not too late because of your age, although you missed some good growth years. You simply didn't invest what you need to get the results you want. This takes studying, learning, dilligance, application, mind-numbing repitition with massive food intake and bustass weightlifting. You have to really f-ing want it! Bad! It must be on your mind daily to where you visualize your lifts see yourself growing to the tank you want to be. You seem to not fit this category if your at 190 thirteen years later. Sorry if I offended you, just giving you the truth.

07-19-2008, 08:49 PM	#17
bouncer dave Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: melbourne australia Posts: 2,720	TF your background shows willing to ex ell in everything physical. __________________ old family red nose "The guy with the biggest butt lifts the biggest weights." — Paul Anderson Waiting for true protein down under

07-19-2008, 09:16 PM	#18
wakejump4me The Specialist Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,325	what about Beef ? would that be a solution ? wake __________________ to save as much money as possible on all your orders from www.TrueProtein.com type AXW999 in the discountcode box Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect. Vince Lombardi

07-20-2008, 08:15 AM	#21
Tight Five Heavyweight Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 1,495	You know in the walking I was doing in the back half of the race I thought to myself that I'd always wanted to give track cycling a go as I thought it was better for my body type......and on the Wednesday I was!! __________________ Troponin Athlete "My methods arent for the weekend quarterback and they sure arent for the beginning lifter, they never have and never will be. This is for hardcore bodybuilders ONLY, lets get that straight right here and now" - the Kayser Soze of bodybuilding My wife holds bands tied around the head board...then I pull on her hips. It still doesn't work well but I like the view - Future 6 October 2008

Sponsored Links