kanuki10

As per the advice I got from my other thread, here I my intended exercise rotation, folowing the basic MWF split, to the letter, nothing advanced, just the basics. I can always tweak and fine-tune after I gain some more good, hard-earned, experience. All sets have preceeding warm-ups and are followed by appropriate an 60 sec stretch.

1A: Incline Machine Press/11-15RP.
Seated Behind Neck Smith Press/11-15RP
Close Grip Smith Bench Press/11-15RP
Cable Long Rows/11-15RP
T-bar Row/6-8SS, 10-12SS

1B: Spider Curl/11-15RP
Reverse-Grip Barbell Curl/10-20SS
Donkey Raise Machine/10-12SS
Lying Leg Curl/15-20RP
Free Bar Squat/6-10SS, followed by WM.

2A: Plate Loaded Flat Chest Press/11-15RP
Seated Dumbbell Overhead Press/15-20RP
PJR/15-20RP
Neutral Grip Pull Up/11-15RP
Rack Deads/6-8SS, 10-12SS

2B: Biceps Teckno/11-15RP
Reverse Grip Cable Curl/10-20SS
Seated Raise/10-12SS
Seated Leg Curl/15-20RP
Wide-Stance Smith Squat/ 6-10SS followed by WM.

3A: Decline Smith Bech Press/11-15RP
Head Press/15-20RP
Cable Skull Crushers/15-20RP
Rack Chins/11-15RP
Smith Machine Bent-Over Rows 6-8SS, 10-12SS.

3B: E-Z Bar Curl/11-15 RP
Cross-Body Curl/10-20SS
45 Degree Leg Press Raise/10-12SS
Sumo Leg Press/15-20SS
Hack Squat/ 6-10SS, followed by WM.

A few things to point out. I am still a bit hazy on how DC prefers to view static holds, so I didn't include them. I realize it probably depends on the movement type and body part as to whether or not a SH can or should be used. I realize the ultimate goal is beating the Logbook and I just want to make sure I don't give SH too much analization, but at the same time I want to use it to benefit me when it can.
I'm mainly concerned with rep ranges and exercise selections. All of these exercises are either favorites, ones I feel would benefit me or one I really need to work on. What advice any of you give will be taken for what it is and greatly appreciated.

ScottMcDonough

Assuming the cable long rows are Dante's movement that should be 15-30RP
Spider curls should be raised as well, 15 or 20-30RP
I always laugh at "biceps teckno" . Dante was talking to a person with the name teckno explaining a cable curl movement and that gets cut and pasted around like it's the name of the exercise lol. Bump that one up to 15-30RP as well.
Those are the things that stand out immediately. Some exercise selections like cable skull crushes might be better swapped out for reverse grip presses in the smith, dips, or ez bar skull crushers. Exercise choices are up to you but I don't see anything that's "wrong" in that regard. Some things like lat width I prefer at 15-20RP but you can use 11-15RP if you like.

Statics are sometimes done on RP exercises that allow it and if it's safe. For your first time through I wouldn't worry about it, gauge your recovery with the RP training and if you can hack it maybe include the statics in where applicable. Just use common sense, you can probably use a static hold on a close grip press(assuming spotter or safety pins set) but it would likely be unwise to static hold PJR pullovers.

Would you mind listing some stats and experience for people here as well?

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iron05

Decline smith press- u can take that out.

Decline is way overhyped bro, incline always needs most work (upper chesT) so i would suggest either incline barbell, smith, or db press or something

u could go flat work here with hammer or something but i would take decline out for sure.


Cable skullS?- if they work for you, and i mean WORK for you- progression, size gains, great stretch- then by all means hit em up....incline skulls are a beautiful mass builder though.

Not too sure about wide stance smith squat seeing how your already doing squats and a wider stance tends to hit more hams than quads anyways. I would do front squats or leg presses instead

Back moves look good.

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Lock_it_Up

I agree with Iron.

Ditch the smith squats for something else.

Also, if I were you I would replace either the T-Bar, or the bent overs, with floor deads...or even rack drag deads. I just feel nothing can truly replace the floor deadlift. It's my standby. That might just be me though.

And throw in reverse grip bench for your tri's. It's amazing how they effect your tri's if you have never done them before.

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My journal.

gdbear65

I figured I might as well piggy-back onto this thread with my rotation

1a
HS flat press
seated military press
skullcrushers
HS front pulldowns
bent-over rows

2a
ez-curls
reverse curls
donkey calf raises
standing leg curls
squats

1b
incline press
HS shoulder press
ez-curl overhead extension
pull-ups
deadlifts

2b
inclined db curls
reverse wrist curls
horizontal calf raises
machine hacks - hi foot pos.
declined leg press

1c
HS seated press
arnold press
inclined cg bench
cg pull-downs
t-bar rows

2c
db preacher curls
hammer curls
seated calf raises
sldl
machine hack squats

Haven't figured out rep ranges as yet and I still need to learn how to do the extreme stretches

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MX_Ivanko

IMO you can keep the Smith Squats but make your stance NARROW and DEEP and you will be sure to hit those quads hard. Or you can swap it for Leg press or maybe Lunges, your choice.

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Lock_it_Up

Other than that, I would highly suggest thinking about rack chins for a BW movement. They work VERY well.

Just my opinions. Not anything written in stone.

__________________
"strap up or wrap up and get in position--then look down at the ground and grit your teeth whisper/mutter this to yourself and believe it--"Im the baddest motherfucker in this gym, Im a goddamn human forklift, and I own this shit"


My journal.

gdbear65

Thanks I will consider your suggestions. I'm not familiar with rack-chins - I'll have to google them. As for Arnold's - that was suggested by someone else on another board - I like db shoulder presses, so I'll sub that in there. What would you suggest to replace leg curls? I've done GMs in the past. I hear you on standing BB curls, but I'm already doing ez-bar curls, so wouldn't it be redundant?

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MX_Ivanko

gdbear65, you can do leg curls just try to make them lying leg curls. if you dont have that machine then you can go with seated or sumo leg press.

if you are in need of another shoulder exercise take a look at this one. i HIGHLY recommend it.
http://www.intensemuscle.com/30863-a...onunculus.html

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Lock_it_Up

Agreed. Go with seated, or lying leg curls. Or you could do sumo press...which I happen to love.

__________________
"strap up or wrap up and get in position--then look down at the ground and grit your teeth whisper/mutter this to yourself and believe it--"Im the baddest motherfucker in this gym, Im a goddamn human forklift, and I own this shit"


My journal.

kanuki10

I made some alterations. A few things: The reverse-grip bench press never treated me well. My shoulders always seemed to take a beating, I felt it minimaly in my Tri's and I always ended up opting more for CG benching. Which I also tended to prefer with a BB, for the same reasons, as RG benching, mainly that I have arms that are proportioned some what long. This makes my effective range of motion somewhat screwy, I often feel a good stretch on many presses with the bar still able to travel further on the negative. Any adivice on little tweaks to make RG benching work for my Tri's would be gretly appreciated.
I also switched in floor deads. For the longest time I did the rack version, if only because I'm six foot, four inches, and I always felt limited by my hips taking over too much of the work. But, I can always switch in racks when I plateau on the floor, though I'm probably going to have to start off way lighter.
Also, I only really included cable SC because I thought it would be a safer movement for failing with heavier weights, seeing as how the weight is not actually being held over your face, but the incline movement, on second thought, does also make it easier to ditch if needed. The only question is: is it safer to bring the bar down behind your head or to your fore-head?
Also, ScottMcDonough, I'll be able to post my BF% stats and other such things next Mon or Tues, as I have an appointment to have them and other measurments taken. But should I post them here, on my other thread, or just keep it simple and put it all on my profile?
After the measurements have been taken, I will then essentially "cruise", as it were, for the rest of that week, get my gaining meal plan in order, start eating again, give my joints some love by bringing the fat back, and hopefully start my DC split on 07/28/08.
And while I don't want to open a can of worms, let me ask some questions that probably have no quick and simple answer concerning a few things.
Gear: I always beleived there was no magic bullet to advancing in the gym that you could buy a Scheels. You should have/let your body adapt to the weight on it's own terms. I "go raw" as it were, and as such I only have a pair of wrist wraps, as my grip finally started to limit me on certain exercises. I have no sleaves, though I have an elbow that kinda tweaks somtimes, no wraps, though the outside of my right knee used to give me grief, no belt, even though the left side of my low back pulls if I don't nail down my form. Really, that's what it always came down to, for me. If there was pain where there shouldn't be, that was a sign my form was loose, or that the weight was too much and both of those causes could be addressed with out gear that I felt could pose the temptation of a crutch that would hurt me in the long term. Should I reconsider this and invest in good some gear? What are some opinions on the pros and cons?
Another issue: I have no pre-existing shoulder condition, at least to my knowledge. Still, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and I really try to add in rotator cuff work at the gym. Standing Internal and external rotations in for 3 sets, 12-15 reps, not to failure, using a pulley. I would try to fit it in after training either back or shoulders.
Should I drop this for the first blast of DC?
If anyone else makes use of cuff work, for the sake of prevention and not rehab, could you perhaps sharw some opinions with me? I'm sure I could use them.

ScottMcDonough

Do you do them like Jason here? The ass off the end of bench will help you pin your shoulders back and put more emphasis on the triceps. It starts around 3:00 in

YouTube Video

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kanuki10

Actually, I had only ever done RG bench in a power rack. It looks like the positioning can be nailed down a lot better in a smith, at least from the video.

ScottMcDonough

That's what everyone in the pound is referring to when they save reverse grip presses, in the smith. Ass off the bench, wide grip(don't try to wrap your hand around just 2-3 fingers), pushing towards your feet(well try to lol) and you will likely enjoy it and start progressing very rapidly in that movement.

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eryanb

I got the opposite advice from BigDownUnder. I had front squats in my routine and he recommended swapping them out for smith squats. So I do Smith squats (often with reversed bands) on B1 and regular free weight squats on B2.

His advice was solid because I've added almost 100lbs to my 1RM on squats in the last three months (as of yesterday).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIFAyazegE (470 1RM July 04 2008)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM47k_s6OB8 (393 1RM BARELY March 24 2008)

Also decline press stimulate your entire chest for growth, not just the lower part and it is the press that allows for the most weight to be pushed. So just like smith squats, thats a reason to keep it. You will be moving way more weight with decline press than incline. If you have incline moves on your other two workouts, I don't see the harm in one decline upper body day in your split.

I'm just learning though myself so mostly just curious what people think about this.

RB

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My DC Log:
http://www.intensemuscle.com/28942-eryanbs-dc-log.html

eryanb

I'm loving that exercise. And chest is my weak point. So I do Dips, Wide reverse grip press, and narrow press for my tricep moves so I can double up on chest work.

My chest is actually finally starting to grow faster than my delts and arms and look more filled out!

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My DC Log:
http://www.intensemuscle.com/28942-eryanbs-dc-log.html

kanuki10

I am going to really think hard about whether or not I want the decline movement. But a better question is how deep of an incline would someone consider safe? I have heard some odd stories from others that if I think heavy Flat BB benching is dangerous, then I should definatley avoid it on the smith, and make sure any incline or decline is at least 30-45 degrees. Why do you thinkI was given this advice, and is there any truth to it?
Also, I would still appreciate any advice on some gym gear, as stated in my other post. Thanks all the same, though. To be sure, the advice I'm getting is great.

kanuki10

I'll be heading to the gym today, not for DC, but to familiarize myself with with movments I'll be choosing with the equipment I have to use. I am definatley cruising after my last attempt at a cutting cycle.
I had been asked to post my stats in my other thread concerning my height, weight, BF%, etc, but seeing as how this thread is more current, I'll post it here.
Height is six foot four inches. Weight is 180 in the morning. Bodyfat was measured at 8.5. I came down from 215, hoping to get at 190 around mid august, then start eating up again. It would appear I have a gift at dieting down. How blessed I am, indeed.
But I am back to eating again, and I seriously have to say, GOOD, SWEET, MERCIFUL LORD GOD IN HEAVEN I MISSED FOOD. Peanut butter is crack to me right now. Salmon is the food of the gods. Eggs are breakfast, first and foremost, and I would keep typing, but I need to go eat again.
Also, I would still appreciate any opinions on whether I should invest in some elboe sleeave, knee braces, etc; as per my previous post.

LandryP

you shouldn't be afraid of "gear". A belt obviously helps alot for back squats and back thickness.

wrist straps are a must because eventually your lats will be pulling more than your forearms can handle.

If grip is a concern, only use them on the second and third RP sets. This way you still get some forearm work during your pulling.

I just started using knee wraps one month ago and i love them.

NovaZ

Always use straps. For every part of your RP set. If you are doing DC you are a Bodybuilder and not a Powerlifter so there is no reason to emphasize your grip.

Strap up for every Back Width, every Back Thickness, RDL/SLDLs, all DB pull movements (Curls, Hammers, Pinwheels etc).

Your forearms as a muscle will be bigger than ever even though you are using straps. I never felt any kind of forearm soreness/usage before I started using straps on DB Curls and Hammers and the like until I strapped up for them. Now my forearm bellies are bigger than ever and sorer than ever.

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kanuki10

At the gym today I got an idea for my chosen A-day exercises. Did warm up sets, got an idea for the weight I want to shoot for, in the rep-ranges I'll be using. No RP, nothing taken to failure.
A few thoughts came to mind.
Having your butt hang of the bench feels great on CG smith benching for tris, as well as for RG smith benching. I found myself using a wide grip, bring the bar to the lower part of my ribcage and pushing toward my feet. Felt nice. Thanks, ScottMcDonough.
Though I did have some trouble with DB upright rows. Didn't feel quite right. Any advice on form for this movement?
I am still having some nit picks with the classic stretches, though. I tend feel more shoulder pull then chest in the chest stretch. My elbow feels more sore than my tris after stretching. I use the handcuff stretch for delts, and that works pretty well. Though the hanging lat stretch seems to pull more at my cuffs and mid-back.
And really, I welcome all opinions concerning sleeves, wraps, etc. I have straps. That is it. If I did get a belt or something for my knees, is it only to be brought out for working sets? What about wraps VS straps or slide-on braces? What brands are respectable?

bouncer dave