Why You Should Box Squat

**Liftin'heavy** · 01-04-2007, 10:41 PM

Why you should box squat By Lou Simmons

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At Westside Barbell we have about 24 lifters. Seven of them have squatted 900 or more. In the 220 class, Chuck Vogelpohl has made 900. Mike Ruggiera, SHW, has gone from a meager 815 to join the elusive 1000 pound club, along with the late, great Matt Dimel. Mary Phillips set many world records by box squatting, as did the late Lee Moran. There is nothing new about box squatting.

The original Westside Barbell Club in Culver City, CA, was years ahead of its time in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Their Muscle Power Builder articles were my foundation in training. Roger Estep traveled from West Virginia to Culver City, and his squat jumped from a low 600 to a world record 765 at 198 due to box squatting. I noticed he was not only much stronger but also much more explosive.

I started doing box squats in the late 1960's. In 1973 I entered a meet that was what they now call raw: no power equipment, even to the point that I wore an Olympic weight belt backwards, so that the narrow side was in the back. Box squats mad it possible for me to squat 630 in the 181's and deadlift 670 to total 1655 in that meet. I made a 920 squat 27 years later at 235. The only man on the planet to do more in 2001 was Eddie Coan.

That's enough history. Let's get to why one should box squat.

Box squatting is the easiest way to learn to squat properly. Most everyone will start descending correctly, but at some point problems occur. To fix this, start on a box several inches above parallel. Squat down to the box. Then have a training partner take out a ½ or 1 inch mat or board. Again sit back, not down, on the box. When this feels right, take out a mat or board again until you are breaking parallel. Anyone can squat correctly if your coach or training partner is smart. You can't teach what you don't know.

You can squat very deep when using a box. Angelo Berardinelli has used a 6 inch box, and Amy Weisberger has squatted on a 4 inch box. Olympic lifters squat very deep, but they bounce out of the bottom. We flex.

Because one sits on a box and then flexes to overcome the resistance, box squats will quickly improve your pulling strength for deadlifts or Olympic pulls.

Box squats are much less taxing on the lifter, and by training at 50-60% of a 1 rep max for 10-12 sets of 2 reps, you can easily break your squat record. The muscular soreness is much less than with regular squatting. One of my former training partners, the No. 1 198 in 1984, could full squat only every 10 days due to the extreme soreness. However, learning to box squat, he found he could squat twice a week, once for speed day and once for max effort day, without any difficulty.

Many trainers have found that a great deal of flexibility can be developed while box squatting: by going lower than normally possible, and by using a wider stance.

You can isolate all the correct squatting muscles by sitting extremely far back on the box. By sitting back on the box to the extent that your shins are positioned past vertical, the glutes, hips, hamstrings, spinal erectors, and abs are totally pre-stretched and overloaded simultaneously, producing a tremendous stretch reflex.

When squatting on a box just below parallel, all your squats will be just below parallel. When doing regular squats, when the weight gets heavier, one will invariably squat higher and higher.

Doing static-overcome-by-dynamic work will build a great amount of explosive and absolute strength. Going from relaxed to dynamic work will also build tremendous explosive and absolute strength. Both types of work occur when box squatting. Some muscles are held statically, while others are actually relaxed.

Safety is always important. In powerlifting as in all other sports, injuries occur. I suffered a complete rupture of the patella tendon in 1991. At that time my best squat was 821 at 242. Rehabbing myself, I gained full range of motion and came back to squat 900 in two meets at 52 years old. I have never used knee wraps in training. I have used bands and bar weight combined at the top to equal over a grand with the weight on the box around 800 with no knee problems at all. How? I sit back for enough on the box where there is no pressure on my patella tendons.

Box squatting has made it possible for me to make a Top 10 total in 1972 without gear and to be no. 3 in 2001 in the open division at 242.

Let's finish with how and how not to box squat. First, how not to. The term rocking box squat has confused many, and this is understandable. At Culver City Westside Barbell Club, Bill West invented a method referred to as a "rocking box squat". First they would place a squat bar on safety rack pins at a level that would allow the lifter to sit on a box and by just arching the back the bar would clear the pins. A spotter from behind would place his arms around the lifter and by rocking him backward and then forward, the lifter could stand up with a large load assisted on the first rep and unassisted on a rep or two more. That is a rocking box squat, 60's style. They may or may not have slammed their feet down in a shock method. Here is the more modern, Columbus Westside method. First, use as wide a stance as possible. Wear groove briefs or a suit with the straps down. Position your feet so they point straight ahead and sit back, never down, until you are sitting on the box. The back is arched, the chest is held high, and the knees are pushed out to the sides. Use a wide hand grip to prevent biciptial tendonitis, and pull the elbows up and under to utilize the lats. When you are on the box, relax the hip muscles for an instant, then forcefully flex them by pushing against the bar. This will cause the spinal erectors to instantly flex, which activates the hips and then the hamstrings. The action is like doing a jerk in Olympic lifting. Try to flex on the box strong enough to stand up in one motion.

We are not trying to build muscles, but rather a huge squat. Your quads will sometimes get smaller, but your hamstrings and hips will grow greatly.

Remember to raise the traps into the bar first to ascend. If you push the feet into the floor first, you will find yourself in a semi good-morning position, which is wrong and dangerous.

I know someone out there will say there have been great squatters who never box squat. Well, are you one of those greats, or one of those who can't squat off the toilet with the Sunday paper?

Give it a try. I've given many reasons why you should try box squatting, and I can't think of one reason not to.
__________________

Sambalifter · 01-04-2007, 11:07 PM

What grabbed my attention on this article that I had never read before was that Lou used them back in the 70s and lifted raw. I wander if all he did was box squat? The reason why I ask is this. About 7-8 years ago I was attempting to do a Westside routine as close as I could manage to what I read in PowerliftingUSA. Prior to this I had squatted 485x1 and deadlifted 510x1 at around 175lbs using just a simple 3 day per week full body routine. The above lifts were done only with a belt, no kind of wraps, just a belt. Anywho, I moved to a WSB inspired routine and done pretty decent on the bench portion, but I simply got sunk on my squats and pulls. I managed to manta ray squat 455lbsx1 off a 8in box. I worked things back then like the kneeling squats, GMs/Zerchers(seated and standing), and box squats. I did no pulling whatsoever thinking the box work and GMs would take care of me.

When it came time for a max on my lifts I got a huge wake up call when I couldn't even come withing 30lbs of my previous bests. I could grasp the problem and honestly my training hasn't been very good since(but thats my problem, not the WSB routine by any means).

So tell me where did I go amuck? I remember when I went for a max squat I got absolutely nailed to the floor. I had no strength in the bottom regardless of the fact that I had squatted heavy down to a low box. The deadlift was absolutely disappointing, it really ripped my heart out!

Anyway- how did Lou make it work for Raw lifts when I see and read so many of the same problems that I had? I beleive every word the man writes but us idiots out here are missing something- what is it? And, for what it was worth i liked box squatting more than regular squats, but I just didn't see the carryover or know how to bring it to life in the end if it was there.

**Liftin'heavy** · 01-04-2007, 11:28 PM

All I can say is that prior to training at WS, a friend of mine bought a few of Lou's video's. We checked them out, read a bunch of his articles and thought we knew what WS training was all about. Trained that way for about 3 months and our lifts went to shit. Why? Because we didn't know dick about training the way the guys at WS do. When you see Lou's vid's or read his articles, you're only getting a fraction of the story. It wasn't until I met the man, re-read his articles and started calling him on the phone that I got a jist of what WS was all about. And it was a small jist.

I can't comment on what you did wrong or where you went wrong. I do know you can't train WS in three days. I would have to see how you trained, why you picked the exercises you did, and watch your form and technique. Most people I see that box squat use the same form as if they were doing your everyday average squat with piss poor form. I train raw now but yet I still use the box squat form, just without the box and both my pull and squat are slowly moving towards the numbers that the big boys play with.

Sambalifter · 01-05-2007, 11:18 AM

I have to say LH that I was to blame for the lack of progress, as there have been thousands now that have suceeded. I trained with the standard WSB template of 4 days- 2-DE, 2-ME per week.

I was just simply baffled at the loss of strength out of the hole when I tried to do a max squat without the box there. I made some pretty substantial gains for me on the box but when it came show time it didn't carry over. I have been a sort of ok natural squatter for basically being self taught. I know I have flaws and big ones, but I had really hoped that the box squat would carry over but it just didn't.

Why did you stop using the box? Is it because you are now training raw and the carryover isn't there for you either utilizing the box? I agree i think box or no box the closer your form is to an actual box squat the better ofdf you are.

Future · 01-05-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liftin'heavy

All I can say is that prior to training at WS, a friend of mine bought a few of Lou's video's. We checked them out, read a bunch of his articles and thought we knew what WS training was all about. Trained that way for about 3 months and our lifts went to shit. Why? Because we didn't know dick about training the way the guys at WS do. When you see Lou's vid's or read his articles, you're only getting a fraction of the story. It wasn't until I met the man, re-read his articles and started calling him on the phone that I got a jist of what WS was all about. And it was a small jist.

I can't comment on what you did wrong or where you went wrong. I do know you can't train WS in three days. I would have to see how you trained, why you picked the exercises you did, and watch your form and technique. Most people I see that box squat use the same form as if they were doing your everyday average squat with piss poor form. I train raw now but yet I still use the box squat form, just without the box and both my pull and squat are slowly moving towards the numbers that the big boys play with.

Amen.

Also, box squatting took me from a 675-700 squatter to an 800+ squatter. I am a big fan of it but not the guys that just try it as a newb. It's too advanced and needs some real coaching.

Achilleus · 01-05-2007, 06:46 PM

I think for my next training cycle I'm going to use the box exlusively for speed squatting with bands.

When heavy box squatting I often drift forward like a good morning, which isn't so good for my back and technique.

**Liftin'heavy** · 01-06-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambalifter

I was just simply baffled at the loss of strength out of the hole when I tried to do a max squat without the box there. I made some pretty substantial gains for me on the box but when it came show time it didn't carry over. I have been a sort of ok natural squatter for basically being self taught. I know I have flaws and big ones, but I had really hoped that the box squat would carry over but it just didn't.

Why did you stop using the box? Is it because you are now training raw and the carryover isn't there for you either utilizing the box? I agree i think box or no box the closer your form is to an actual box squat the better ofdf you are.

You say you lost strength out of the hole... are you flexing off the box or out of the hole? I mean, when you sit back on the box, leading with your ass, and sit down, do you pause for a split second, drive your knees out and as you come off the box drive your hips? Box squatting has always helped my explosiveness out of the hole and equipment just amplified it.

I quit using the box because I no longer do speed work. I don't powerlift anymore, I'm just playing around a bit. Not having to use the box is just one less thing I have to hunt down in the gym to use.

Sambalifter · 01-06-2007, 09:48 AM

LH,
I am going to be honset with you and not bullshit you like most do on these internet forums saying that they did it perfect. Its been so long since I practiced the box squat I couldn't tell you for sure all the details on how I performed them. Two things I can tell you I focused on though and it was this, sitting back and relaxing for a second on the box. I performed both my speed work and max effort work off the box at that time.

Just for review purposes- here is a fell squat I performed back in the late summer. Its all I have at this moment. I may try a few box squat sets this coming thursday and get them recorded so you can see if it was a technique issue or would this be a waste of time?

anyway here it is- just flimsy belt and Tommy Kono Knee sleeves on-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB91Q377POo

dbcb314 · 01-06-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liftin'heavy

You say you lost strength out of the hole... are you flexing off the box or out of the hole? I mean, when you sit back on the box, leading with your ass, and sit down, do you pause for a split second, drive your knees out and as you come off the box drive your hips? Box squatting has always helped my explosiveness out of the hole and equipment just amplified it.

I quit using the box because I no longer do speed work. I don't powerlift anymore, I'm just playing around a bit. Not having to use the box is just one less thing I have to hunt down in the gym to use.

It always helped me out of the hole too...

Sambalifter · 01-06-2007, 01:14 PM

Thats what kills me about it- I got friggin buried.

=S1K · 01-06-2007, 01:32 PM

Mike, i always found box squatting to be very helpful in learning to sit back into the squat. This worked well when trying to maximize the benefits of a squat suit. But now that all i'm doing is raw squatting, I find that my form is completely different. I squat with a more narrow stance and ...and although I still break at the hips first, I more so squat straight down than trying to sit back. I just find that this gives me more a pop out of the hole than sitting back into the squat. What really helped my squat was heavy GM's...and to this day my squat descent starts almost exaclty like a gm does.. I break at the hips, sit back slightly..then drop down into my squat. Call it piss poor form...but my lower back is by far my strong point...to the point that when ever i start to stall in my squat..i can almost always just good moring the thing up using pure lower back and hips.

I think my problem lies more with hip flexability..and as you guys hit your mid forties like me you'll see the same thing....So the earlier I shoot down..seems like easier it is to hit depth...the more i sit back, the more difficult it is to hit depth.

I haven't box squatted in about six months...and although i loved doing them. I really don't miss them.

One of the things I noticed while at the NERB last year was that the guys squat form was pretty much just like that....All the guys you see squatting with super wide stances while in gear...and taken in their stance considerably and seemed to squat more straight down < from my observation>. After the meet I was talking with Ed Coan and asked him if ever box squatted. He replied that box squatting ruined his form.

I'm not totally disin' box squats..i love em. Just seems like for me they're not so much as useful a tool while squatting raw.

Have you modified your squat form since you've gone raw ?

Any thoughts , tips, suggestions ?

**Liftin'heavy** · 01-06-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambalifter

LH,
I am going to be honset with you and not bullshit you like most do on these internet forums saying that they did it perfect. Its been so long since I practiced the box squat I couldn't tell you for sure all the details on how I performed them. Two things I can tell you I focused on though and it was this, sitting back and relaxing for a second on the box. I performed both my speed work and max effort work off the box at that time.

Just for review purposes- here is a fell squat I performed back in the late summer. Its all I have at this moment. I may try a few box squat sets this coming thursday and get them recorded so you can see if it was a technique issue or would this be a waste of time?

anyway here it is- just flimsy belt and Tommy Kono Knee sleeves on-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB91Q377POo

I thought that looked good but it's nothing what a box squat should look like, technique wise. If your stance was a little wider your hips would be more involved. The way you're squatting involves more quad. Do you find yourself getting on your toes? If so, not good. You might need to bring up your lower back and try not to come out of the hole so fast. The way you squatted in the vid reminds me of how Shane Hamman squats. Shane you would drop down in the hole real quick and get this huge rebound. Amazing but dangerous in my opinion.

What are those, automobile tires on that bar? LOL!

**Liftin'heavy** · 01-06-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =S1K

Mike, i always found box squatting to be very helpful in learning to sit back into the squat. This worked well when trying to maximize the benefits of a squat suit. But now that all i'm doing is raw squatting, I find that my form is completely different. I squat with a more narrow stance and ...and although I still break at the hips first, I more so squat straight down than trying to sit back. I just find that this gives me more a pop out of the hole than sitting back into the squat. What really helped my squat was heavy GM's...and to this day my squat descent starts almost exaclty like a gm does.. I break at the hips, sit back slightly..then drop down into my squat. Call it piss poor form...but my lower back is by far my strong point...to the point that when ever i start to stall in my squat..i can almost always just good moring the thing up using pure lower back and hips.

I think my problem lies more with hip flexability..and as you guys hit your mid forties like me you'll see the same thing....So the earlier I shoot down..seems like easier it is to hit depth...the more i sit back, the more difficult it is to hit depth.

I haven't box squatted in about six months...and although i loved doing them. I really don't miss them.

One of the things I noticed while at the NERB last year was that the guys squat form was pretty much just like that....All the guys you see squatting with super wide stances while in gear...and taken in their stance considerably and seemed to squat more straight down < from my observation>. After the meet I was talking with Ed Coan and asked him if ever box squatted. He replied that box squatting ruined his form.

I'm not totally disin' box squats..i love em. Just seems like for me they're not so much as useful a tool while squatting raw.

Have you modified your squat form since you've gone raw ?

Any thoughts , tips, suggestions ?

Phil,

Box squatting isn't for everyone. Look at Kirk and Ed, their squats are phenomenal with the way they squat. I'm not saying you can't develop a big squat the way they do or the way Sambalifter squats. Hell, I used to squat that way and I nailed a nice 815 at 308. But for someone to excel using box squats, their form needs to be the same without the box.

I tried doing a more bodybuilding type of squat but after tweaking my vastus medialis in my left leg and tearing the right one, I said enough of that shit and resorted back to my box squat form. I don't have a problem with flexibility or hitting depth, but I don't squat super wide either. My stance is a little wider than shoulder width, which takes a lot of pressure of my groin(it's been injured for over a year now and brings me much discomfort). Squatting super wide killed it as well as my hips.

I think box squatting, if not using a WS way of training(speed work) should be used as a tool, to be thrown in every once in awhile, either for low low box squats or high box squats to handle heavy weights. But my form is picture perfect, the only thing is missing is the box, so says Mariah Liggett.

dbcb314 · 01-06-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =S1K

Mike, i always found box squatting to be very helpful in learning to sit back into the squat. This worked well when trying to maximize the benefits of a squat suit. But now that all i'm doing is raw squatting, I find that my form is completely different. I squat with a more narrow stance and ...and although I still break at the hips first, I more so squat straight down than trying to sit back. I just find that this gives me more a pop out of the hole than sitting back into the squat. What really helped my squat was heavy GM's...and to this day my squat descent starts almost exaclty like a gm does.. I break at the hips, sit back slightly..then drop down into my squat. Call it piss poor form...but my lower back is by far my strong point...to the point that when ever i start to stall in my squat..i can almost always just good moring the thing up using pure lower back and hips.

I think my problem lies more with hip flexability..and as you guys hit your mid forties like me you'll see the same thing....So the earlier I shoot down..seems like easier it is to hit depth...the more i sit back, the more difficult it is to hit depth.

I haven't box squatted in about six months...and although i loved doing them. I really don't miss them.

One of the things I noticed while at the NERB last year was that the guys squat form was pretty much just like that....All the guys you see squatting with super wide stances while in gear...and taken in their stance considerably and seemed to squat more straight down < from my observation>. After the meet I was talking with Ed Coan and asked him if ever box squatted. He replied that box squatting ruined his form.

I'm not totally disin' box squats..i love em. Just seems like for me they're not so much as useful a tool while squatting raw.

Have you modified your squat form since you've gone raw ?

Any thoughts , tips, suggestions ?

See I actually like box squats for raw lifting.

I found I have to use exact same form to make it work though.

They really increased my power out of the hole and made me comfortable IN the hole.

Another added bonus is they help me feel where parallel is. Unlike most people, I have a problem burying my squats real deep, which can kill my numbers. But the box gives me a 'feel' how deep parallel actually is.

HillBillyWannaB · 01-07-2007, 05:04 PM

I have a question about the rep range. I'm relatively new to the powerlifting style (within a year). The assistance stuff I've done (ex. for chest and back, etc) is usually 4 sets of 10-12 reps or so. I read in the post that he recommends 10 sets of 2 at 50-60% of 1RM. Am I reading that right? I just want to make sure I get everything out of them that I can.

Hope you don't mind the "newbie" question, I'm just a little confused. Thanks.

Hey LH, thanks for replying to my PM.

Achilleus · 01-08-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HillBillyWannaB

I have a question about the rep range. I'm relatively new to the powerlifting style (within a year). The assistance stuff I've done (ex. for chest and back, etc) is usually 4 sets of 10-12 reps or so. I read in the post that he recommends 10 sets of 2 at 50-60% of 1RM. Am I reading that right? I just want to make sure I get everything out of them that I can.

Hope you don't mind the "newbie" question, I'm just a little confused. Thanks.

Hey LH, thanks for replying to my PM.

That figure applies to dynamic box squatting, not assistance work.

strjon · 02-11-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liftin'heavy

All I can say is that prior to training at WS, a friend of mine bought a few of Lou's video's. We checked them out, read a bunch of his articles and thought we knew what WS training was all about. Trained that way for about 3 months and our lifts went to shit. Why? Because we didn't know dick about training the way the guys at WS do. When you see Lou's vid's or read his articles, you're only getting a fraction of the story. It wasn't until I met the man, re-read his articles and started calling him on the phone that I got a jist of what WS was all about. And it was a small jist.

Sounds like you shouldn't mess with WS unless you can get personal training from Louie or someone else at the WS Gym ?

dellsguy67 · 10-05-2007, 12:58 AM

bump - 1st box squat session today and i honestly don't know why i would do regular squats again for a long time

5luke2 · 10-05-2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellsguy67

bump - 1st box squat session today and i honestly don't know why i would do regular squats again for a long time

agree with you 100% dells

idk · 04-08-2008, 06:05 AM

i was watching the seminar posted on here for the 10th time and it caught my attention that when sitting on the box your shin angle to the ground is less than 90 degrees, so it kinda looks like a _/ where the _ is your foot. is that a box squat specific technique or is that how its supposed to look free squatting as well, so you "leg curl" yourself up?

5luke2 · 04-08-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idk

i was watching the seminar posted on here for the 10th time and it caught my attention that when sitting on the box your shin angle to the ground is less than 90 degrees, so it kinda looks like a _/ where the _ is your foot. is that a box squat specific technique or is that how its supposed to look free squatting as well, so you "leg curl" yourself up?

thats box specific, if you try that without a box your gonna go tumbling down

01-04-2007, 10:41 PM	#1
Liftin'heavy IM Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 766	Why You Should Box Squat Why you should box squat By Lou Simmons -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At Westside Barbell we have about 24 lifters. Seven of them have squatted 900 or more. In the 220 class, Chuck Vogelpohl has made 900. Mike Ruggiera, SHW, has gone from a meager 815 to join the elusive 1000 pound club, along with the late, great Matt Dimel. Mary Phillips set many world records by box squatting, as did the late Lee Moran. There is nothing new about box squatting. The original Westside Barbell Club in Culver City, CA, was years ahead of its time in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Their Muscle Power Builder articles were my foundation in training. Roger Estep traveled from West Virginia to Culver City, and his squat jumped from a low 600 to a world record 765 at 198 due to box squatting. I noticed he was not only much stronger but also much more explosive. I started doing box squats in the late 1960's. In 1973 I entered a meet that was what they now call raw: no power equipment, even to the point that I wore an Olympic weight belt backwards, so that the narrow side was in the back. Box squats mad it possible for me to squat 630 in the 181's and deadlift 670 to total 1655 in that meet. I made a 920 squat 27 years later at 235. The only man on the planet to do more in 2001 was Eddie Coan. That's enough history. Let's get to why one should box squat. Box squatting is the easiest way to learn to squat properly. Most everyone will start descending correctly, but at some point problems occur. To fix this, start on a box several inches above parallel. Squat down to the box. Then have a training partner take out a ½ or 1 inch mat or board. Again sit back, not down, on the box. When this feels right, take out a mat or board again until you are breaking parallel. Anyone can squat correctly if your coach or training partner is smart. You can't teach what you don't know. You can squat very deep when using a box. Angelo Berardinelli has used a 6 inch box, and Amy Weisberger has squatted on a 4 inch box. Olympic lifters squat very deep, but they bounce out of the bottom. We flex. Because one sits on a box and then flexes to overcome the resistance, box squats will quickly improve your pulling strength for deadlifts or Olympic pulls. Box squats are much less taxing on the lifter, and by training at 50-60% of a 1 rep max for 10-12 sets of 2 reps, you can easily break your squat record. The muscular soreness is much less than with regular squatting. One of my former training partners, the No. 1 198 in 1984, could full squat only every 10 days due to the extreme soreness. However, learning to box squat, he found he could squat twice a week, once for speed day and once for max effort day, without any difficulty. Many trainers have found that a great deal of flexibility can be developed while box squatting: by going lower than normally possible, and by using a wider stance. You can isolate all the correct squatting muscles by sitting extremely far back on the box. By sitting back on the box to the extent that your shins are positioned past vertical, the glutes, hips, hamstrings, spinal erectors, and abs are totally pre-stretched and overloaded simultaneously, producing a tremendous stretch reflex. When squatting on a box just below parallel, all your squats will be just below parallel. When doing regular squats, when the weight gets heavier, one will invariably squat higher and higher. Doing static-overcome-by-dynamic work will build a great amount of explosive and absolute strength. Going from relaxed to dynamic work will also build tremendous explosive and absolute strength. Both types of work occur when box squatting. Some muscles are held statically, while others are actually relaxed. Safety is always important. In powerlifting as in all other sports, injuries occur. I suffered a complete rupture of the patella tendon in 1991. At that time my best squat was 821 at 242. Rehabbing myself, I gained full range of motion and came back to squat 900 in two meets at 52 years old. I have never used knee wraps in training. I have used bands and bar weight combined at the top to equal over a grand with the weight on the box around 800 with no knee problems at all. How? I sit back for enough on the box where there is no pressure on my patella tendons. Box squatting has made it possible for me to make a Top 10 total in 1972 without gear and to be no. 3 in 2001 in the open division at 242. Let's finish with how and how not to box squat. First, how not to. The term rocking box squat has confused many, and this is understandable. At Culver City Westside Barbell Club, Bill West invented a method referred to as a "rocking box squat". First they would place a squat bar on safety rack pins at a level that would allow the lifter to sit on a box and by just arching the back the bar would clear the pins. A spotter from behind would place his arms around the lifter and by rocking him backward and then forward, the lifter could stand up with a large load assisted on the first rep and unassisted on a rep or two more. That is a rocking box squat, 60's style. They may or may not have slammed their feet down in a shock method. Here is the more modern, Columbus Westside method. First, use as wide a stance as possible. Wear groove briefs or a suit with the straps down. Position your feet so they point straight ahead and sit back, never down, until you are sitting on the box. The back is arched, the chest is held high, and the knees are pushed out to the sides. Use a wide hand grip to prevent biciptial tendonitis, and pull the elbows up and under to utilize the lats. When you are on the box, relax the hip muscles for an instant, then forcefully flex them by pushing against the bar. This will cause the spinal erectors to instantly flex, which activates the hips and then the hamstrings. The action is like doing a jerk in Olympic lifting. Try to flex on the box strong enough to stand up in one motion. We are not trying to build muscles, but rather a huge squat. Your quads will sometimes get smaller, but your hamstrings and hips will grow greatly. Remember to raise the traps into the bar first to ascend. If you push the feet into the floor first, you will find yourself in a semi good-morning position, which is wrong and dangerous. I know someone out there will say there have been great squatters who never box squat. Well, are you one of those greats, or one of those who can't squat off the toilet with the Sunday paper? Give it a try. I've given many reasons why you should try box squatting, and I can't think of one reason not to. __________________ __________________ Elitefitnesssystems.com bigmike@elitefts.com METAL SportsGear Xtremeformulations.com Hercules Gym, Syracuse New York houseofstrong.com Last edited by Liftin'heavy : 01-04-2007 at 10:44 PM.

01-04-2007, 11:28 PM	#3
Liftin'heavy IM Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 766	All I can say is that prior to training at WS, a friend of mine bought a few of Lou's video's. We checked them out, read a bunch of his articles and thought we knew what WS training was all about. Trained that way for about 3 months and our lifts went to shit. Why? Because we didn't know dick about training the way the guys at WS do. When you see Lou's vid's or read his articles, you're only getting a fraction of the story. It wasn't until I met the man, re-read his articles and started calling him on the phone that I got a jist of what WS was all about. And it was a small jist. I can't comment on what you did wrong or where you went wrong. I do know you can't train WS in three days. I would have to see how you trained, why you picked the exercises you did, and watch your form and technique. Most people I see that box squat use the same form as if they were doing your everyday average squat with piss poor form. I train raw now but yet I still use the box squat form, just without the box and both my pull and squat are slowly moving towards the numbers that the big boys play with. __________________ Elitefitnesssystems.com bigmike@elitefts.com METAL SportsGear Xtremeformulations.com Hercules Gym, Syracuse New York houseofstrong.com Last edited by Liftin'heavy : 01-04-2007 at 11:33 PM.

01-06-2007, 01:32 PM	#11
=S1K Bantamweight Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 236	Mike, i always found box squatting to be very helpful in learning to sit back into the squat. This worked well when trying to maximize the benefits of a squat suit. But now that all i'm doing is raw squatting, I find that my form is completely different. I squat with a more narrow stance and ...and although I still break at the hips first, I more so squat straight down than trying to sit back. I just find that this gives me more a pop out of the hole than sitting back into the squat. What really helped my squat was heavy GM's...and to this day my squat descent starts almost exaclty like a gm does.. I break at the hips, sit back slightly..then drop down into my squat. Call it piss poor form...but my lower back is by far my strong point...to the point that when ever i start to stall in my squat..i can almost always just good moring the thing up using pure lower back and hips. I think my problem lies more with hip flexability..and as you guys hit your mid forties like me you'll see the same thing....So the earlier I shoot down..seems like easier it is to hit depth...the more i sit back, the more difficult it is to hit depth. I haven't box squatted in about six months...and although i loved doing them. I really don't miss them. One of the things I noticed while at the NERB last year was that the guys squat form was pretty much just like that....All the guys you see squatting with super wide stances while in gear...and taken in their stance considerably and seemed to squat more straight down < from my observation>. After the meet I was talking with Ed Coan and asked him if ever box squatted. He replied that box squatting ruined his form. I'm not totally disin' box squats..i love em. Just seems like for me they're not so much as useful a tool while squatting raw. Have you modified your squat form since you've gone raw ? Any thoughts , tips, suggestions ? __________________ - Press On ! Last edited by =S1K : 01-06-2007 at 02:01 PM.

01-07-2007, 05:04 PM	#15
HillBillyWannaB Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 773	I have a question about the rep range. I'm relatively new to the powerlifting style (within a year). The assistance stuff I've done (ex. for chest and back, etc) is usually 4 sets of 10-12 reps or so. I read in the post that he recommends 10 sets of 2 at 50-60% of 1RM. Am I reading that right? I just want to make sure I get everything out of them that I can. Hope you don't mind the "newbie" question, I'm just a little confused. Thanks. Hey LH, thanks for replying to my PM. __________________ As far as shoes go, Converse Chuck Taylor's are best. Don't have $100 shoes and a 10-cent squat. -Louie Simmons "Dada" -My daughter <<< My Kickers.<<< My Training Log

10-05-2007, 12:58 AM	#18
dellsguy67 Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,083	bump - 1st box squat session today and i honestly don't know why i would do regular squats again for a long time __________________ To save 5% on your TrueProtein.com purchase, use discount code: DAS235 -------------------------------------- SUCCESS = CONSISTENCY X TIME - Sniffy54 -------------------------------------- "Consistency can take you a log way" - Homonunculus

01-04-2007, 11:07 PM	#2
Sambalifter New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	What grabbed my attention on this article that I had never read before was that Lou used them back in the 70s and lifted raw. I wander if all he did was box squat? The reason why I ask is this. About 7-8 years ago I was attempting to do a Westside routine as close as I could manage to what I read in PowerliftingUSA. Prior to this I had squatted 485x1 and deadlifted 510x1 at around 175lbs using just a simple 3 day per week full body routine. The above lifts were done only with a belt, no kind of wraps, just a belt. Anywho, I moved to a WSB inspired routine and done pretty decent on the bench portion, but I simply got sunk on my squats and pulls. I managed to manta ray squat 455lbsx1 off a 8in box. I worked things back then like the kneeling squats, GMs/Zerchers(seated and standing), and box squats. I did no pulling whatsoever thinking the box work and GMs would take care of me. When it came time for a max on my lifts I got a huge wake up call when I couldn't even come withing 30lbs of my previous bests. I could grasp the problem and honestly my training hasn't been very good since(but thats my problem, not the WSB routine by any means). So tell me where did I go amuck? I remember when I went for a max squat I got absolutely nailed to the floor. I had no strength in the bottom regardless of the fact that I had squatted heavy down to a low box. The deadlift was absolutely disappointing, it really ripped my heart out! Anyway- how did Lou make it work for Raw lifts when I see and read so many of the same problems that I had? I beleive every word the man writes but us idiots out here are missing something- what is it? And, for what it was worth i liked box squatting more than regular squats, but I just didn't see the carryover or know how to bring it to life in the end if it was there.

01-05-2007, 11:18 AM	#4
Sambalifter New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	I have to say LH that I was to blame for the lack of progress, as there have been thousands now that have suceeded. I trained with the standard WSB template of 4 days- 2-DE, 2-ME per week. I was just simply baffled at the loss of strength out of the hole when I tried to do a max squat without the box there. I made some pretty substantial gains for me on the box but when it came show time it didn't carry over. I have been a sort of ok natural squatter for basically being self taught. I know I have flaws and big ones, but I had really hoped that the box squat would carry over but it just didn't. Why did you stop using the box? Is it because you are now training raw and the carryover isn't there for you either utilizing the box? I agree i think box or no box the closer your form is to an actual box squat the better ofdf you are.

01-05-2007, 06:46 PM	#6
Achilleus Middleweight Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 625	I think for my next training cycle I'm going to use the box exlusively for speed squatting with bands. When heavy box squatting I often drift forward like a good morning, which isn't so good for my back and technique.

01-06-2007, 09:48 AM	#8
Sambalifter New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	LH, I am going to be honset with you and not bullshit you like most do on these internet forums saying that they did it perfect. Its been so long since I practiced the box squat I couldn't tell you for sure all the details on how I performed them. Two things I can tell you I focused on though and it was this, sitting back and relaxing for a second on the box. I performed both my speed work and max effort work off the box at that time. Just for review purposes- here is a fell squat I performed back in the late summer. Its all I have at this moment. I may try a few box squat sets this coming thursday and get them recorded so you can see if it was a technique issue or would this be a waste of time? anyway here it is- just flimsy belt and Tommy Kono Knee sleeves on- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB91Q377POo

01-06-2007, 01:14 PM	#10
Sambalifter New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	Thats what kills me about it- I got friggin buried.

04-08-2008, 06:05 AM	#20
idk Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,455	i was watching the seminar posted on here for the 10th time and it caught my attention that when sitting on the box your shin angle to the ground is less than 90 degrees, so it kinda looks like a _/ where the _ is your foot. is that a box squat specific technique or is that how its supposed to look free squatting as well, so you "leg curl" yourself up? __________________ 1 oz. prevention =1 lb. cure Do not exist, LIVE! Jesus would total elite !!!!~DuckDuckGoose If apologizing works, then why do we need the police?

04-08-2008, 12:11 PM	#22
fade Intense Set of the Month March 2007 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 898

Sponsored Links