Acupunture

**SuperSport** · 05-17-2004, 12:06 AM

Acupuncture~

Quote:

Originally posted by Sachet
March/April 2004 Volume I, Issue 4
As seen in ABOVE & BEYOND, Beyondmass.com's online magazine

New Preventative Measures Sub-Forum

We have added a new sub-forum called 'Preventative Measures' to the Training & Fitness forum on BeyondMass.
If you have anything you'd like to share in regard to Preventative Measures, Vegetarianism or Holistic Health & Medicine, please feel free to post it.
SuperSport28405 has recently become a member at BM and I've had the pleasure of conversing with him in the past. I'm very excited he's here as he is very intelligent and likes to talk about health issues as much as I do ~ Sachet

Acupuncture By Supersport

Acupuncture is one of the oldest forms of medicine as it originated over 5000 thousand years ago in China. It is based on the balance of Chi, the vital life energy present in all living organisms. According to acupuncture theory, Chi circulates in the body along 12 major energy pathways called meridians, each linked to specific organs and organ systems. There exists over 1000 acupoints in the human body.

The existence of the meridan system was further established by French researcher Pierre de Vernejoule, who injected radioactive isotopes into the acupoints of humans and tracked their movement with a special gamma imaging instrument (1).

Conditions benefited number over 100, and some are migranes, sinusitis, colds, tonsillitis, asthma, addictions, myopia, ulcers, gastrointestinal disorders, tennis elbow, sciatica, and more.

Acupuncture is very beneficial in pain relief as it stimulates the release of endorphins and encephalin, the body's natural pain killing chemicals (2).
David Eisenberg, MD, Clinical Research Fellow at Harvard medical School states that , "There is evidence that acupuncture influences the production and distribution of a great many neurotransmitters and neuromodulators, and that this in turn alters the perception of pain" (3)
In one study of over 20,000 students at UCLA , acupuncture reduced both the severity and the frequency of muscle tension headaches and migraines (4) Another study of 204 patients suffering from chronic pain resulted in 74% experiencing significant pain relief 3 months after acupuncture treatment (5).

But the most impressive case I came across involves acupuncture as a substitute for surgical anesthesia. This is absolutely incredible if I may say so myself.

In 1979, Dr. Eisenberg was invited to the Beijing Neurosurgical Institute in China to witness and assist in a major surgical operation carried out using only acupuncture for the relief of pain.

The patient was a 58 year old male with a brain tumor located under his pituitary gland. The neurosurgeon, Dr. Wang Zhong-cheng recommended acupuncture analgesia because it had much fewer side effects than other anesthetics. Throughout a four hour procedure, where the patient had a portion of his skull removed to reach the tumor, the patient remained fully conscious, alert, and awake. He only received a mild sedative, and the acupuncture consisted of the insertion of 5 needles attached to a low voltage battery. The patient felt no pain, and his pulse and blood pressure remained stable throughout the operation. When the surgery was complete, the patient stood up, thanked the surgeon, and walked out of the operating room without help(6).

The Beijing clinic performs 90% of its head and neck operations using acupuncture analgesia, instead of traditional anesthesia in the US.
It is important to realize that here in the US there are thousands of people that die from traditional anesthesia due to complications. Not only is human life lost, but the cost for anesthesia for surgery is several thousand dollars.

I go to an acupuncturist about 4 times per year as a preventative to keep my meridians clear, and I pay about 60 bucks per visit. You don't have to be a mathematician to figure out that billions of dollars and thousands of lives could be saved by using acupuncture where possible in surgery, not to mention the lost work time also during post surgery. I have never heard of anyone just getting off of an operation table after brain surgery and use of anesthetics and walking out of the hospital. Imagine the fiscal relief of insurers and patients if this type of treatment would be used.
I am a patient of acupuncture, so I am very familiar with the procedure. The needles used are as fine as hair, and you feel no pain. Sometimes the acupuncturist puts on right in the crown of my head, and again I feel nothing. A session lasts about 45 minutes.

Hopefully one day in the not to distant future acupuncture will become a major utensil in the treatment of pain, anesthesia, and a wide variety of disease.

1) De vournejoul,P.;et al. "Study of acupuncture Meridians using Radioactive Tracers." Bulletin de L' Academie Nationale de Medicine (oct 22, 1985):1071-1075

2) Chatfield,K.B. "The Scientific Basis of Acupuncture" The Textbook of Natural Medicine,ed Pizzorno,Seattle Wash.: John Bastyr College publications, 1988.

3) Eisenberg,D:Encounters with Qi:Exploring Chinese Medicine. 2d ed. New York: Penguin Books, 1987, p 77

4) Millman, B "Acupuncture, Context and Critique" Annual Review of Medicine 28 (1977): 223 -236.

5) Cheung,J. "Effect of Electroacupuncture on Chronic Painful Conditions in General Medical Practice-a four Year's Study". American Journal of Chinese Medicine 13, 1985:33-38.

6) Eisenberg, D, MD. Ibid p68-74

~*~*~*~

Follow up
~by Sachet

Somehow a topic becomes alive when the writer has actually participated in the process.

Just recently, another Harvard study regarding acupuncture took place. Radiologist Bruce Rosen and his team used MRIs {Magnetic Resonance Imaging] three times on 20 volunteers. The brain scan shows changes in blood flow and the amount of oxygen in the blood and was preformed before, during and after the acupuncture session.
They did the experiment by placing needles in the hand where it's linked to pain relief as shown in traditional Chinese medicine. When the volunteers began to feel their hands become heavy and blood flow decreased in certain areas of the brain, Rosen knew the acupuncture was working correctly.
Rosen claims that when there's less blood, the brain isn't working as hard and in effect, acupuncture is quieting down key regions of the brain. The specific brain areas affected are involved in mood, pain and cravings. Some studies have found that acupuncture is helpful in treating depression, addictions, pain and eating disorders.
Rosen also pointed out that the brain regions that are involved have a significant amount of dopamine, the reward chemical that surges in reaction to food, money, beautiful faces to cocaine. He hopes that research will show that the reduction in blood flow through acupuncture could lead to dopamine changes that will trigger a cascade effect which would release endorphins, the brain's natural pain-relieving and comforting chemicals.
More controlled research on pain and addiction patients is needed in order to provide proof.

Until Next Month,

Sachet

**SuperSport** · 05-17-2004, 12:14 AM

Something tells me we are going to have a lot of posts and updates in this thread over the next few months....

MsteveM · 05-17-2004, 01:46 AM

hey, great article! hopefully i can stop despising needles and learn to appreciate them.

MsteveM · 05-17-2004, 01:49 AM

are u a vegetarian?

**SuperSport** · 05-17-2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsteveM
are u a vegetarian?

Oh heck no!!! I eat small amounts of beef and chicken, and a good bit of fish.

As for the acupuncture needles...they are finer than hair, you won't feel a thing.
Sometimes my acupuncturist puts on right in the crown of my head-no pain .

MsteveM · 05-17-2004, 11:45 AM

heh.. i was just wondering. i'm not either, but for the average person, a vegetarian diet can be beneficial in preventing/treating some diseases - the 2 that surprised me were osteoperosis and arthritis. animal protein isn't actually a necessity. about the needles..its more of a psychological thing. lol. i just dont like them for some reason. one of my old buddies mom is an accupuncturist. i think i'll go check it out sometime.

**SuperSport** · 05-17-2004, 05:07 PM

I was just doing some reading a couple of days ago about osteo...looks like a vitamin d defeciency plays a big factor in development of osteo...

As for arthritis, the UBI treatment works wonders-especially on rheumatoid arthritis.. The MD that I see that uses UBI has had profound success with several rheumatoid A patients....

**SuperSport** · 05-17-2004, 05:13 PM

the thing with the vegan diet-especially if it doesn't include eggs or milk-is that you have to be very selective with your food choices so you get all of the essential aminos.

Glad to see you aren't a vegan.....actually I am kinda suspicious of the health people that say an all vegan diet prevents many diseases. Most of these people are chronically deficient in vit-B-a big deal in health.
And of course many people with vested interests in farming and agriculture preach this myth too. I am trying to verify if Dean Ornish is in fact on Quaker Oats payroll....seems to me that I recall reading somewhere that he was indeed on their payroll-might explain why he is so vegan oriented.

MsteveM · 05-17-2004, 08:34 PM

i agree that they have a much higher tendency to be deficient in nutrients - especially aminos if they dont eat enough variety. vitamins can usually be supplemented and most foods are fortified now anyways. about osteoperosis, vitamin d deficiency could contribute since it is required to absorb calcium. a couple of studies that i have printed out concluded that: (yeah, most are done w/ old women since they seem to be the ones to be troubled by this)

1) elderly women with a high dietary ratio of animal to vegetable protein intake have more rapid femoral neck bone loss and a greater risk of hip fracture than do those with a low ratio. this suggests that an increase in vegetable protein intake and a decrease in animal protein intake may decrease bone loss and the risk of hip fracture. 2) women ages 65-80; groups consuming a high ratio of animal to vegetable protein had 3X the bone loss and a 3.7X greater rate of hip fractures compared to the group consuming a high ratio of vegetable to animal protein.

this is due to the acidity of most animal products. another study i have compared acid of foods with bone loss. most of it is lost through the urine and replaced from calcium stored in the bones. thats when problems occur. there is also a strong statistical link between a high consumption of animal products and a high rate of osteoperosis. most would say that dairy products are necessary b/c of the high calcium, but the absorption rate of the calcium is pretty low - 30 some % if i remember correctly. but broccoli for instance has a calcium absorption rate of 50 some %. it has much less calcium, but the absorption rate is higher. i dont beleive that tons of calcium is necessary to prevent osteo since many countries consume less than 1/2 the amount the US does and have much lower incidences of many chronic diseases. other than from the usda (i never trusted them very much to begin with, but once i learned about "wildlife services" i decided that all they want is money so i disregard anything they say), the farmingham study is the only one i found that did not find a correlation between animal consumption and bone loss.

interestingly enough, i've read that seattle has a high suicide rate because there is a prevalence of vitamind d deficiency (it's very cloudy and rainy there all the time - lack of sunlight). just thought i'd throw that in there.

you know, i think alot of problems that can be associated with animal product intake (other than from saturated fat) are somehow linked to the ridiculous amounts of hormones, antibiotics and disease prevalent living conditions that most livestock are raised in.

i think that another big reason some "health people" promote vegan diets is that it basically guarantees a high fiber intake.

**SuperSport** · 05-17-2004, 08:40 PM

great post ...I like the acidic food study you mentioned. I will be posting a chart concerning acidic and alkaline foods tonite. Interesting to note that disease conditions and pathogens thrive in acidic bodies.
I am all about oxygenation of the blood-increasing it to optimal levels. Alkaline ph helps a bunch in this regard.

Just a note-sodas and beer have a ph around 2....extremely acidic.
I think most protein sources are somewhat acidic...most veggies are alkaline. A good balance is the key.

MsteveM · 05-17-2004, 08:55 PM

thanks. i like oxygen too (although i think everyone likes oxygen)... i stopped drinking sodas awhile ago b/c of all the sugar - now i absolutely cannot drink it. tears my stomach apart. i also used to have some indigestion problems (not real serious) and it all went away when i cut out soda.

about accupuncture.. if someone can trigger the release of endorphins, do you think they can manipulate testosterone and/or adrenaline? i like to manipulate things.

**SuperSport** · 05-17-2004, 09:03 PM

Not real sure about that...but I have a good I can ask that i am sure can lead me in the right direction. I will let you know in a day or so.

MsteveM · 08-07-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSport

Not real sure about that...but I have a good bro I can ask that i am sure can lead me in the right direction. I will let you know in a day or so.

did you ever get a chance to talk to your friend?

**SuperSport** · 08-07-2004, 09:51 PM

I haven't talked to him about the testosterone thing...but I will ring him up and get some kinda answer for you in a couple of days. Thanks for reminding me....lol.

MsteveM · 08-08-2004, 11:04 PM

lol.. ok, no rush, thats what you said 3 months ago

**SuperSport** · 08-09-2004, 09:10 AM

lol.

I just got a response from him last night. He has seen a study that looked favorable for using cinnamon bark. As for the use of acupuncture pins, no info as of yet.

If you decide to try the cinnamon bark make sure you see an acupuncturist or a legit herb shop. I would try to get the raw herb from an acupuncturist in your area.

You might also try some yohimbe bark extract. I have used yohimbe as a vasodilator for a very long time. It may have an effect on free testosterone also, even though I do not have an abstract on that. If nothing else it will help you achieve a great pump....

Sachet · 10-09-2004, 07:47 PM

Interesting information you guys!

I read some where that carbonated beverages also inhibit calcium absorption.

**SuperSport** · 10-11-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sachet

Interesting information you guys!

I read some where that carbonated beverages also inhibit calcium absorption.

Yep...I have read that too. Might be along the ph lines as sodas are very acidic.

Also, we need sufficient magnesium in our diet to properly use calcium.

MsteveM · 10-13-2004, 11:15 PM

cool. i've never heard of it inhibiting absorption. but in the realm of accupuncture and related things i just found out the other day that theres some sort of chinese medicine institution about 20 mins away from me that supposedly has very good programs for accupuncture (3-4yrs), shiatsu , herbalism i guess i'd call it, and some other stuff that i dont remember but several types of natural healing methods. we had a student who is about the be lisenced as an accupuncturist from there as a guest lecturer in one of my classes. i think i'm gonna check it out. man, i gotta stop thinking. i have 2 exams tomorrow and if i keep pushing it my brain will pop. and i just wanted to add that my brain felt awfully strange during the brain topic of anatomy/physiology class.. odd how that works.

Bellina · 10-14-2004, 02:13 PM

I just had accupuncture for the first time yesterday. Not the most comfortable thing for sure. We'll see how it goes.

Egill · 10-14-2004, 09:57 PM

Great info SS

Quote:

The Beijing clinic performs 90% of its head and neck operations using acupuncture analgesia, instead of traditional anesthesia in the US.
It is important to realize that here in the US there are thousands of people that die from traditional anesthesia due to complications. Not only is human life lost, but the cost for anesthesia for surgery is several thousand dollars.

wow, acupuncture should definitely be used more.

**SuperSport** · 10-15-2004, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egill

Great info SS

wow, acupuncture should definitely be used more.

Yes Egill, it should be one of the primary forms of medicine in the US and around the world.

Something I have noticed about our medicine over the years is this-

If a treatment is actually performed by a health practitioner where it is *just the practitioner executing the therapy* and no drugs involved it is always frowned upon by the entrenched medical establishment.

Chiropractic used to be regarded as witchcraft 15 years ago...now look how popular it is because why?.....it is *effective*.

Same with acupuncture...but of course biz-as-usual medicne doesn't like it when these therapies are used as no drugs are involved.

Hopefully the public will start going to acupuncturists, naturopaths, and alternative/holistic MD's as their primary care doctor.

Future · 03-09-2005, 09:37 PM

05-17-2004, 12:14 AM	#2
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	Something tells me we are going to have a lot of posts and updates in this thread over the next few months.... __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

05-17-2004, 01:46 AM	#3
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,968	hey, great article! hopefully i can stop despising needles and learn to appreciate them. __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

05-17-2004, 01:49 AM	#4
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,968	are u a vegetarian? __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

05-17-2004, 11:45 AM	#6
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,968	heh.. i was just wondering. i'm not either, but for the average person, a vegetarian diet can be beneficial in preventing/treating some diseases - the 2 that surprised me were osteoperosis and arthritis. animal protein isn't actually a necessity. about the needles..its more of a psychological thing. lol. i just dont like them for some reason. one of my old buddies mom is an accupuncturist. i think i'll go check it out sometime. __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

05-17-2004, 05:07 PM	#7
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	I was just doing some reading a couple of days ago about osteo...looks like a vitamin d defeciency plays a big factor in development of osteo... As for arthritis, the UBI treatment works wonders-especially on rheumatoid arthritis.. The MD that I see that uses UBI has had profound success with several rheumatoid A patients.... __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

05-17-2004, 05:13 PM	#8
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	the thing with the vegan diet-especially if it doesn't include eggs or milk-is that you have to be very selective with your food choices so you get all of the essential aminos. Glad to see you aren't a vegan.....actually I am kinda suspicious of the health people that say an all vegan diet prevents many diseases. Most of these people are chronically deficient in vit-B-a big deal in health. And of course many people with vested interests in farming and agriculture preach this myth too. I am trying to verify if Dean Ornish is in fact on Quaker Oats payroll....seems to me that I recall reading somewhere that he was indeed on their payroll-might explain why he is so vegan oriented. __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

05-17-2004, 08:34 PM	#9
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,968	i agree that they have a much higher tendency to be deficient in nutrients - especially aminos if they dont eat enough variety. vitamins can usually be supplemented and most foods are fortified now anyways. about osteoperosis, vitamin d deficiency could contribute since it is required to absorb calcium. a couple of studies that i have printed out concluded that: (yeah, most are done w/ old women since they seem to be the ones to be troubled by this) 1) elderly women with a high dietary ratio of animal to vegetable protein intake have more rapid femoral neck bone loss and a greater risk of hip fracture than do those with a low ratio. this suggests that an increase in vegetable protein intake and a decrease in animal protein intake may decrease bone loss and the risk of hip fracture. 2) women ages 65-80; groups consuming a high ratio of animal to vegetable protein had 3X the bone loss and a 3.7X greater rate of hip fractures compared to the group consuming a high ratio of vegetable to animal protein. this is due to the acidity of most animal products. another study i have compared acid of foods with bone loss. most of it is lost through the urine and replaced from calcium stored in the bones. thats when problems occur. there is also a strong statistical link between a high consumption of animal products and a high rate of osteoperosis. most would say that dairy products are necessary b/c of the high calcium, but the absorption rate of the calcium is pretty low - 30 some % if i remember correctly. but broccoli for instance has a calcium absorption rate of 50 some %. it has much less calcium, but the absorption rate is higher. i dont beleive that tons of calcium is necessary to prevent osteo since many countries consume less than 1/2 the amount the US does and have much lower incidences of many chronic diseases. other than from the usda (i never trusted them very much to begin with, but once i learned about "wildlife services" i decided that all they want is money so i disregard anything they say), the farmingham study is the only one i found that did not find a correlation between animal consumption and bone loss. interestingly enough, i've read that seattle has a high suicide rate because there is a prevalence of vitamind d deficiency (it's very cloudy and rainy there all the time - lack of sunlight). just thought i'd throw that in there. you know, i think alot of problems that can be associated with animal product intake (other than from saturated fat) are somehow linked to the ridiculous amounts of hormones, antibiotics and disease prevalent living conditions that most livestock are raised in. i think that another big reason some "health people" promote vegan diets is that it basically guarantees a high fiber intake. __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

05-17-2004, 08:40 PM	#10
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	great post ...I like the acidic food study you mentioned. I will be posting a chart concerning acidic and alkaline foods tonite. Interesting to note that disease conditions and pathogens thrive in acidic bodies. I am all about oxygenation of the blood-increasing it to optimal levels. Alkaline ph helps a bunch in this regard. Just a note-sodas and beer have a ph around 2....extremely acidic. I think most protein sources are somewhat acidic...most veggies are alkaline. A good balance is the key. __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine" Last edited by SuperSport : 07-15-2007 at 08:19 AM.

05-17-2004, 08:55 PM	#11
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,968	thanks. i like oxygen too (although i think everyone likes oxygen)... i stopped drinking sodas awhile ago b/c of all the sugar - now i absolutely cannot drink it. tears my stomach apart. i also used to have some indigestion problems (not real serious) and it all went away when i cut out soda. about accupuncture.. if someone can trigger the release of endorphins, do you think they can manipulate testosterone and/or adrenaline? i like to manipulate things. __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

05-17-2004, 09:03 PM	#12
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	Not real sure about that...but I have a good I can ask that i am sure can lead me in the right direction. I will let you know in a day or so. __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine" Last edited by SuperSport : 07-15-2007 at 08:20 AM.

08-07-2004, 09:51 PM	#14
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	I haven't talked to him about the testosterone thing...but I will ring him up and get some kinda answer for you in a couple of days. Thanks for reminding me....lol. __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

08-08-2004, 11:04 PM	#15
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,968	lol.. ok, no rush, thats what you said 3 months ago __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

08-09-2004, 09:10 AM	#16
SuperSport Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 2,358	lol. I just got a response from him last night. He has seen a study that looked favorable for using cinnamon bark. As for the use of acupuncture pins, no info as of yet. If you decide to try the cinnamon bark make sure you see an acupuncturist or a legit herb shop. I would try to get the raw herb from an acupuncturist in your area. You might also try some yohimbe bark extract. I have used yohimbe as a vasodilator for a very long time. It may have an effect on free testosterone also, even though I do not have an abstract on that. If nothing else it will help you achieve a great pump.... __________________ Admin@ http://www.proactivehealthnet.com " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake" Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

10-09-2004, 07:47 PM	#17
Sachet Middleweight Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 450	Interesting information you guys! I read some where that carbonated beverages also inhibit calcium absorption. __________________ ~~ If you're listed here ~~>* YOU ROCK!

10-13-2004, 11:15 PM	#19
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,968	cool. i've never heard of it inhibiting absorption. but in the realm of accupuncture and related things i just found out the other day that theres some sort of chinese medicine institution about 20 mins away from me that supposedly has very good programs for accupuncture (3-4yrs), shiatsu , herbalism i guess i'd call it, and some other stuff that i dont remember but several types of natural healing methods. we had a student who is about the be lisenced as an accupuncturist from there as a guest lecturer in one of my classes. i think i'm gonna check it out. man, i gotta stop thinking. i have 2 exams tomorrow and if i keep pushing it my brain will pop. and i just wanted to add that my brain felt awfully strange during the brain topic of anatomy/physiology class.. odd how that works. __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

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10-14-2004, 02:13 PM	#20
Bellina Lightweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 407	I just had accupuncture for the first time yesterday. Not the most comfortable thing for sure. We'll see how it goes.

03-09-2005, 09:37 PM	#23
Future Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,478	Bump __________________ Team Skip Client