difference in types of carbs

idk · 09-24-2006, 04:40 PM

i'm so embarassed to ask this, being that i'm trying to become a nutrition major, but here's the situation. i've been trying to find a carbohydrate source to add to my shakes post workout, and i come across maltodextrin. anyways, its described as a complex carb. do complex carbs stimulate an insulin spike? now i know that a complex carb by definition just means that its two or more monosaccharides combined, but i guess the connotation that "complex" carbs seem to get is that its what you should be eating unless its post workout, and that things like oatmeal, potatoes and grits fall into that same category. but they're really not the same right? i shouldn't be going around drinking maltodextrin all willy-nilly just cuz its "complex" and therefore wont break down like a simple carb would right? the word "complex" is deceiving.

so some of the products i've been checking out is:
Professional Supplements Vitargo, which is hella expensive, but is WMS.
Twinlab Ultra Fuel, which looks very promising, giving a full helping of b-complex and other things like chromium. but i probably only need half of the actual carbs, meaning i'll only get half the dosage of vitamins and minerals.
NOW CarboGain, pure maltodextrin.
NOW Dextrose.

advice?

Future · 09-24-2006, 05:34 PM

Study the glycemic index.

Epcelon · 09-24-2006, 06:03 PM

I pretty sure Maltdextrin is a simple carb!

For post work out shake I mix 50g Maltdextrin, 50g dextrose (glucose), and couple scoops whey. Then sip it after your workout over a period of about 30mins.

Ive been told to stay away from sugars such as sucrose + fructose for post cycle drinks, although I couldnt tell you why!
Hope this helps

AnyOldIron · 09-25-2006, 08:08 AM

idk, you said it yourself - malto is a complex carb because of its chemical makeup, NOT its glycemic index (which is very high), and despite its high GI it's broken down more slowly because of the chemical chains which make it up.

it does have an effect on insulin levels of course although when mixed with protein, makes its glycemic load lower. remember the glycemic index of a food isn't the same as its insulin index.

if you're looking for a complex carb to add to your pwo shakes then I use ground up oats.. I use a mix of fast and slow carbs post-workout personally (oats+juice).

Future · 09-25-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

remember the glycemic index of a food isn't the same as its insulin index.

Someone enlighten me on this cause this doesnt compute with me.

How about this more so but I still dont see it being on the same page as Any's quote:

Quote:

GI is simply a measure of how high the blood sugar rises in response to a given amount of CHO from various sources compared to a standard food (usually white bread or glucose). For example, carrots and potatoes have about the same high GI as sugar and white bread. However, carrots have only 195 calories per pound and a boiled potato has about 450 calories per pound while bread contains around 1250 calories per pound and sugar contains 1725 calories per pound. So the volume of food must increase dramatically for foods with a lower calorie density to be fed at the same CHO level. Since gastric expansion increases the rate of gastric emptying and CHO can only be absorbed after it leaves the stomach, this methodology creates a bias against lower calorie dense foods. Foods that lead to a higher osmolarity in the stomach can delay gastric emptying and this may also slow their absorption and lower the glycemic response. The reason sports drinks don’t have a high concentration of sugar is that it would delay gastric emptying and slow the absorption of water.

The Insulin Score, (IS) or insulin index, is a measure of insulin output in response to a given caloric amount of various foods. Among foods with little fat or protein, the GI correlates fairly well with the IS. Dietary fat delays gastric emptying so any CHO consumed with a lot of fat usually results in a lower GI but because the fat magnifies the insulin output to a given rise in blood sugar, the IS is generally much higher than would be predicted based on the GI. For example, ice cream with its high fat content and high osmolarity has a fairly low GI, much lower than potatoes, rice or carrots. However, dietary fat greatly magnifies the insulin response to a given amount of CHO so the IS for ice cream is only slightly lower than that of potatoes and actually higher than white rice despite its much lower glycemic index. Dietary protein, like fat, also causes more insulin to be released; foods with no CHO at all cause a fairly substantial insulin response even though they have little effect on blood sugar.[7] It should be clear then that GI does not accurately predict the IS when foods vary considerably in their macronutrient composition and/or ED.

bhman6 · 09-25-2006, 10:59 AM

malto is a complex carb wiht a high GI

certain foods may have a high GI and a low insulin index, such as carrots. They are high on the GI but given the amount of carrots you could relaitically eat in one sitting the amount of insulin produced as a result is relatively low.

Future · 09-25-2006, 11:03 AM

Yeah I get the idea of high glycemic can still give off low insulin spikes if the calories are low in the amount of food. But at the same time most of us eat so much that its a starting point to know the glycemic index and THEN apply the caloric value to determine a range that will impact slin levels. Correct?

bhman6 · 09-25-2006, 11:27 AM

I would agree with that

idk · 09-25-2006, 09:05 PM

ahh i see, thanks guys. so any reccomendations on what carbs i should pick up for post workout, please dont say WMS from TP, i'm sorry i just can't afford the shipping. what about any of the products i listed up there^? i'm leaning towards the twinlab product just because i like the concept behind it, a lot of extra b-vitamins to help produce EPO, protein synthesis, along with chromium to make you more insulin sensitive.

AnyOldIron · 09-26-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idk

ahh i see, thanks guys. so any reccomendations on what carbs i should pick up for post workout, please dont say WMS from TP, i'm sorry i just can't afford the shipping. what about any of the products i listed up there^? i'm leaning towards the twinlab product just because i like the concept behind it, a lot of extra b-vitamins to help produce EPO, protein synthesis, along with chromium to make you more insulin sensitive.

why can't you just put oats in there? oats plus juice gets the job done fine.. or dextrose and maltodextrin.. or whatever else you like. I'm not knocking supplements but I thought you were at college? (like me) in which case some oats and juice does the trick without the cost! lol.

Future, yes, I should have been a little clearer.. I freaked out when I saw the maltodextrin was the principle ingredient of splenda (which I put in my oatmeal etc), before learning I'd have to eat a sackful for it to have any effect on blood sugar levels.

idk · 09-26-2006, 03:24 PM

AOI, raw oat? all i have is the quick oats from quaker, can i just put that in? is it blended so the oats get broken up, or do you just gulp it down all clumpy? and are you adding the juice to the shake? cuz pretty much no flavor of juice mixes with chocolate...

i tried to use sucrose(table sugar) once, and i guess i left it in a hot place next to my laptop for a while, but when i tried to mix it, it formed a giant clump on the top of my shaker strainer LOL. i had to just get a spoon and scoop it off.

davesr · 09-29-2006, 11:45 PM

Go with the Waxy Maize- Well worth it!!

idk · 09-30-2006, 12:01 AM

the shipping is too expensive.

goliath23 · 10-12-2006, 11:25 PM

Grape juice does the trick. Its simple and effective. I Find Grape juice with a potato and a banana is great. White pasta is good too and raisins as well

jesus rocks · 10-12-2006, 11:29 PM

bhman6 · 10-12-2006, 11:36 PM

white rice or potato is about as cheap as it gets

try white rice, vanilla protein, honey, raisins, and fat-free plain yogurt and make a rice pudding out of it all...tastes awesome

MsteveM · 10-13-2006, 12:03 AM

I like to drink my shake with WMS, then have some sort of fruit juice or gatorade with oatmeal or whole wheat pasta along with whatever other low-fat carby foods are around.

if you can't get WMS, that's fine because it's not really needed anyways. it is pretty cool though.

take future's advice about checking out the glycemic index. most complex carbs won't spike insulin, and most simple carbs will but it's not 100% clear-cut like that. for example, potatoes are complex yet also high GI. and i'm thinking blueberries are a simple and low GI example.

so....shake in vanilla flavored rice milk and water blended with chocolate flavoring (yummy), plus a nice sized glass of gatorade or juice along with a bowl of rice or oatmeal sound good?

the word complex isn't necessarily deceiving, it's just referring to the chemical structure in regards to it existing as polysaccharides - all it means is longer chains of sugars. simple carbs are exactly that - they have a more simple structure to them.

idk · 10-13-2006, 03:14 AM

well until i get another shipment from cantmentionthenamehere.com, i'm drinking the protein separately with a 20 oz bottle of lipton green tea, seems like a great combo, simple carbs, protein, plus the benefits of green tea.

09-24-2006, 04:40 PM	#1
idk Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,380	difference in types of carbs i'm so embarassed to ask this, being that i'm trying to become a nutrition major, but here's the situation. i've been trying to find a carbohydrate source to add to my shakes post workout, and i come across maltodextrin. anyways, its described as a complex carb. do complex carbs stimulate an insulin spike? now i know that a complex carb by definition just means that its two or more monosaccharides combined, but i guess the connotation that "complex" carbs seem to get is that its what you should be eating unless its post workout, and that things like oatmeal, potatoes and grits fall into that same category. but they're really not the same right? i shouldn't be going around drinking maltodextrin all willy-nilly just cuz its "complex" and therefore wont break down like a simple carb would right? the word "complex" is deceiving. so some of the products i've been checking out is: Professional Supplements Vitargo, which is hella expensive, but is WMS. Twinlab Ultra Fuel, which looks very promising, giving a full helping of b-complex and other things like chromium. but i probably only need half of the actual carbs, meaning i'll only get half the dosage of vitamins and minerals. NOW CarboGain, pure maltodextrin. NOW Dextrose. advice? __________________ 1 oz. prevention =1 lb. cure Do not exist, LIVE! Jesus would total elite !!!!~DuckDuckGoose If apologizing works, then why do we need the police?

09-24-2006, 05:34 PM	#2
Future Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,853	Study the glycemic index. __________________ Team Skip Client

09-25-2006, 08:08 AM	#4
AnyOldIron Light-heavyweight Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,365	idk, you said it yourself - malto is a complex carb because of its chemical makeup, NOT its glycemic index (which is very high), and despite its high GI it's broken down more slowly because of the chemical chains which make it up. it does have an effect on insulin levels of course although when mixed with protein, makes its glycemic load lower. remember the glycemic index of a food isn't the same as its insulin index. if you're looking for a complex carb to add to your pwo shakes then I use ground up oats.. I use a mix of fast and slow carbs post-workout personally (oats+juice). __________________ liftism.com - the board of all boards

09-25-2006, 11:03 AM	#7
Future Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,853	Yeah I get the idea of high glycemic can still give off low insulin spikes if the calories are low in the amount of food. But at the same time most of us eat so much that its a starting point to know the glycemic index and THEN apply the caloric value to determine a range that will impact slin levels. Correct? __________________ Team Skip Client

09-25-2006, 09:05 PM	#9
idk Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,380	ahh i see, thanks guys. so any reccomendations on what carbs i should pick up for post workout, please dont say WMS from TP, i'm sorry i just can't afford the shipping. what about any of the products i listed up there^? i'm leaning towards the twinlab product just because i like the concept behind it, a lot of extra b-vitamins to help produce EPO, protein synthesis, along with chromium to make you more insulin sensitive. __________________ 1 oz. prevention =1 lb. cure Do not exist, LIVE! Jesus would total elite !!!!~DuckDuckGoose If apologizing works, then why do we need the police?

09-24-2006, 06:03 PM	#3
Epcelon New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4	I pretty sure Maltdextrin is a simple carb! For post work out shake I mix 50g Maltdextrin, 50g dextrose (glucose), and couple scoops whey. Then sip it after your workout over a period of about 30mins. Ive been told to stay away from sugars such as sucrose + fructose for post cycle drinks, although I couldnt tell you why! Hope this helps

09-25-2006, 10:59 AM	#6
bhman6 Roundtable Expert Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 5,331	malto is a complex carb wiht a high GI certain foods may have a high GI and a low insulin index, such as carrots. They are high on the GI but given the amount of carrots you could relaitically eat in one sitting the amount of insulin produced as a result is relatively low.

09-25-2006, 11:27 AM	#8
bhman6 Roundtable Expert Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 5,331	I would agree with that

09-26-2006, 03:24 PM	#11
idk Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,380	AOI, raw oat? all i have is the quick oats from quaker, can i just put that in? is it blended so the oats get broken up, or do you just gulp it down all clumpy? and are you adding the juice to the shake? cuz pretty much no flavor of juice mixes with chocolate... i tried to use sucrose(table sugar) once, and i guess i left it in a hot place next to my laptop for a while, but when i tried to mix it, it formed a giant clump on the top of my shaker strainer LOL. i had to just get a spoon and scoop it off. __________________ 1 oz. prevention =1 lb. cure Do not exist, LIVE! Jesus would total elite !!!!~DuckDuckGoose If apologizing works, then why do we need the police?

09-29-2006, 11:45 PM	#12
davesr New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 8	Go with the Waxy Maize- Well worth it!! __________________ FREEDOM CARRIES WITH IT AN ULTIMATE PRICE PAID BY ANOTHER...

09-30-2006, 12:01 AM	#13
idk Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,380	the shipping is too expensive. __________________ 1 oz. prevention =1 lb. cure Do not exist, LIVE! Jesus would total elite !!!!~DuckDuckGoose If apologizing works, then why do we need the police?

10-12-2006, 11:25 PM	#14
goliath23 Heavyweight Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ottawa Posts: 2,204	Grape juice does the trick. Its simple and effective. I Find Grape juice with a potato and a banana is great. White pasta is good too and raisins as well

10-12-2006, 11:29 PM	#15
jesus rocks Heavyweight Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: With Mrs. JR trying to find good deals on meat Posts: 2,196	dex __________________ There are only three reasons why you may not like the Whopper. * You hate America and your parents. * You enjoy killing puppies. * You are not awesome I would highly recommend that all first dates happen at Burger King. Order your new girl/guy a Whopper. If he or she refuses feel free to yell, "You are a lame dog killing terrosist!" TRUE PROTEIN DISCOUNT CODE: SDM333. PLEASE USE IT

10-12-2006, 11:36 PM	#16
bhman6 Roundtable Expert Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 5,331	white rice or potato is about as cheap as it gets try white rice, vanilla protein, honey, raisins, and fat-free plain yogurt and make a rice pudding out of it all...tastes awesome __________________ benhartman.com optimumnutrition.com americanbodybuilding.com rippedacademy.com proteinreport.com myspace.com/optimumnutrition myspace.com/americanbodybuilding facebook.com/group.php?gid=9788498452 facebook.com/group.php?gid=7805419287 "Force yourself out of your comfort zone. You can't grow and progress without challenge and pressure. A diamond without pressure is a piece of fucking coal."

10-13-2006, 12:03 AM	#17
MsteveM DC Q & A Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,997	I like to drink my shake with WMS, then have some sort of fruit juice or gatorade with oatmeal or whole wheat pasta along with whatever other low-fat carby foods are around. if you can't get WMS, that's fine because it's not really needed anyways. it is pretty cool though. take future's advice about checking out the glycemic index. most complex carbs won't spike insulin, and most simple carbs will but it's not 100% clear-cut like that. for example, potatoes are complex yet also high GI. and i'm thinking blueberries are a simple and low GI example. so....shake in vanilla flavored rice milk and water blended with chocolate flavoring (yummy), plus a nice sized glass of gatorade or juice along with a bowl of rice or oatmeal sound good? the word complex isn't necessarily deceiving, it's just referring to the chemical structure in regards to it existing as polysaccharides - all it means is longer chains of sugars. simple carbs are exactly that - they have a more simple structure to them. __________________ www.trueprotein.com www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/ "Those who do not beleive in the impossible, should not distract those who are already doing it" "if we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" Note: i'm not an expert, but i'm probably right. "Furthermore, the urge to overindulge is almost absent when drinking urine." - the skeptic's dictionary about urine therapy.

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10-13-2006, 03:14 AM	#18
idk Super-heavyweight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,380	well until i get another shipment from cantmentionthenamehere.com, i'm drinking the protein separately with a 20 oz bottle of lipton green tea, seems like a great combo, simple carbs, protein, plus the benefits of green tea. __________________ 1 oz. prevention =1 lb. cure Do not exist, LIVE! Jesus would total elite !!!!~DuckDuckGoose If apologizing works, then why do we need the police?

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