TheLil'Missus

Do the bed covers on pickups cut down on drag and improve gas mileage?

We had a diesel VW and thought about the veggie fuel, but with what we were paying for that little sucker we didn't want to experiment. Getting work done on a VW is stupid expensive.

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Prot

acetone is merely a strong solvent that could clean dirty parts better than the additives in the gasoline. doubt 3.5 ounces would dilute the gasoline enough to hurt the fuel pump.

Future

That's what I think. Sure maybe ACETONE could damage things but 3 oz mixed with 10 gallons? I just dont see it.

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GetnBigr

let us know what happens. I'm curious. I understand both sides of this subject. Not sure I would experiment on my truck though.

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SuperSport

Well, I took the plunge yesterday with my truck and tracotrs, all gasoline powered.

I will say that it didn't seem as though I had to use as much pedal to get my truck moving, but hey it could be a *placebo effect".

No spark knock at all, which is unusual. If I get on the gas a little hard while pulling my trailer w/ 2 John Deere tractors I usually hear a little rattling (on 89 octane).


It will be very difficult for me to calculate gas mileage as number one, my odometer doesn't work (lol) and number 2 I pull so many different things that weigh different amounts.

HOWEVER-

James at proactivehealthnet.com is doing a simple lawn mower experiment at wide open throttle, running on a stand, with 4 ounces of straight gas versus 4 ounces of gas/acetone mix.

He is timing each run until the thing runs dry...we will see which fuel runs the longest.

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tarmon8r

Some reply's at corral.net BTW, i do believe the acetone will increase the octane rating of the fuel.

Uh, last time I checked, one of the primary ingredients in most
commercial carb and throttle body cleaners is acetone, berryman B-12 chemtool
is almost 20% acetone, STP and Slick 50 fuel system cleaner contains
acetone, most octane boosters contain acetone, your girlfriends
fingernail polish remover is acetone (which is sold in cheap plastic bottles).
That's not to say PURE Acetone will not eat some plastics and rubbers,
it will, but in the levels used as a gas additive, it 's harmless, far
less corrosive than alcohol.

Check the can labels of any fuel system cleaner or additive for :
propanone, dimethyl ketone, 2-propanone, propan-2-one and
beta-ketopropane. (acetone)

Acetone is chemically similar to propane, which is an excellent, clean
burning engine fuel, although not all of us would want to run the 18:1
compression it would take to burn it pure.

Acetone will give some degree of mileage boost, when mixed around 2-4
oz/10 gallons gas, my dad's been using it for years in carbed and EFI
mopars. He sees a consistant drop in mileage when he doesn't use it. One
of his Dodges has 450,000 miles on it, bought new in 72 and the old 318
still gets 25-28 mpg on the highway, so there might be something to it.
The heads have never been off the engine and it breezes emissions test
every time. He changes oil about every 6000 miles. Mom's 97 Neon does
about 50-53 mpg, drops into the low 40s if she forgets to put acetone in
when she fills up.

I've tried it with mixed results on different cars, it takes a bit of
experimentation to get the mixture right. Different types of fuel
injectors and carbs respond to greater or lesser degrees. I am guessing that
some atomize the spray better than others and thus show less
improvement, but usually, I see an improvement over time if I keep the car long
enough.

Future

To quote the Bob's again from Office Space:

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ctgblue

Does that mean, if I run this, I can put my daughters foot under the exhaust pipe and take off that nasty black toenail polish???

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SuperSport

I have been using the acetone thing for 3 days so far, no problems to report. It will be difficult to get an accurate gas mileage figure, but I will compare my fuel bills for the next 2-3 months versus the previous 3 months and see what I come up with....

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GetnBigr

keep the information coming.

anyone running acetone in one of the new dodge HEMI engines? I just bought a 2004 Dodge Quadcab truck with a HEMI. Gas mileage around town is about 15.2 mpg, according to the onboard computer.

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your2slow

I've got a F-250 with the diesel and have added a few mods to get me up to about 22 mpg on the interstate. If I can keep my foot out of it around town I can get 18-19. I also keep a second car for extended traveling since a cheap car is alot less expensive than another truck.
I'm really surprised at the 11.2 you're getting with the V-10. My brother-in-law had a F-250 with the V10 and was lucky to get 9-10 mpg.

Crimson Ghost

Anytime you add acetone, alcohol, xylene or any other type of chemical like those you need to also add in minerals/lubricants.

Chronic use of any of the above additives will cause rubber and plastic parts of the fuel system to degrade and then you have a real mess.

Most people add "Marvel Mystery Oil" to their gas when using these additives.

Future

Well, the odd thing is no one I have talked to that actually has used acetone has had problems. Acetone is stored in a plastic container. I just think it's negative hype. I am getting just over a 1/4 of a tank extra now.

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Crimson Ghost

It's not like it happens overnight.

It may take 1-2 years but I guarantee anyone that just dumps acetone into their tank WILL have fuel problems (injectors, fuel pumps, fuel lines = all plastic and rubber parts).

I'm a car nut and we've been adding stuff into our tanks for 20-30 years. Back in my dad's day they put moth balls into the gas tanks to give them higher octane. We've done the research and know what this stuff does to a fuel system.

Let me see if I can find the exact article with the write up on the oil/ minerals needed to counteract this stuff.

Future

I have looked at the stuff. I have read numerous websites. Again, no one that has tried it has been saying bad things. And this isnt a new procedure. I trust the research that is already out.

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Crimson Ghost

I'm not saying it doesn't work...there is just a lot of "myth" out there about the stuff.

Check out: http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:...e_Additive:FAQ

"CAUTION: Acetone degrades cheaper plastics. While we would expect that all components used in all automobiles would be of a more durable nature, this may not necessarily be the case. There could be serious problems if a cheap component gave out in the fuel system. Be sure your system is of high quality before trying acetone."

If you know anything about car manufacturers then you KNOW how they like to skimp on certian things...usually things that you CAN'T see.

I'm not saying to NOT use acetone....just recommending that people add the correct lubricants to counteract the acetone.

ALSO, as ethanol % rise in gas (usually during winter) it NEGATES the effect of acetone.

"Yes, ethanol seems to significantly dampen the effects of acetone. The higher the portion of ethanol in the fuel, the more it inhibits the positive effects of acetone. "



Another warning on a different page about Acetone:

"Experiment at your own risk
Acetone is known to deteriorate cheap plastics and other substances. While the components in a car's fuel system should be of high quality, and thus immune to any deleterious effects from exposure to acetone, be aware that "ideal" is not always the case in practice. Be advised that not all systems have been tested against acetone. Until such thorough testing has been accomplished and certified by an accredited authority, you assume your own liability for experimentally testing acetone in your particular system"

Future

I suggest going to Chemical Anarchy's site and search for acetone because they have 7 pages just as a suggested fuel additive.

I honestly believe that there are those that don't want people to use acetone so we do by more gasoline.

Supersport is the genuis and someone else at Proactive Health is doing some experiments. It's his article and he's the braniac.

Now if there is something that could cause problems I think puting that Mystery Oil sounds curious. I haven read anywhere to do that except for what you post CG. Where did you get that information?

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Crimson Ghost

Marvel Mystery Oil is just a brand of lubricant. It became important after they took lead out of gas back in the 60's-70's. People with engines that didn't have the new valve seats in their heads (that works with unleaded gas) had to use these lubricants when they took leaded gas away.

The alcohol they put in our gas has the same detrimental effects but they have added other components to gasoline to counteract a solvent like alcohol.

Now...you're taking automotive advice from a BBing board as gospel. Do those people REALLY know anything about combustion engines and newer fuel systems made out of the cheapest plastic parts they can make in Mexico? Some of them may, but my dad and every other guy I race with and every automobile board I post on, KNOW about fuel additives. We've been using them in every engine we've had for years and years.

Acetone, xylene, toluene, MBE and other products have been used for years. It's nothing NEW. It's just getting circulated by chain emails and posted all over the web because of gas prices again.

All I'm trying to do is save people from ruining their fuel systems. In the OLD days, almost every part of the fuel system was made out of metal. If it were still this way then this would not be a problem. But, our electronic fuel injection systems on almost every car is made out of plastics and rubber. Adding MORE solvent to your gas can have a bad effect on these parts and will cause them to wear. Once you have to buy all new fuel line, fuel injectors and a fuel pump then you'll realize what it's doing. If you don't know how to replace these parts yourself then you're really in for a world of hurt. Labor is $$$.

For example: I have a Buick Grand National. It's a turbocharged V-6. With turbocharged engines you need to increase octane in order to safely turn up the boost on the car. More boost = more power. We run supplemental alcohol injection systems. These are basic kits that contain a tank, pump, lines and jets. The pump pumps the alcohol mixture out of the tank, through the lines and out the jet where it atomizes right before the throttle body. After that it mixes with the gas, after it exists the fuel injectors, and effectively raises octane, lowers temperatures and causes the fuel to burn more efficiently causing more horsepower and better gas mileage (if you're not racing).

Now, I've put together a few homebuilt kits (similar to this one: http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html) and you HAVE TO use certain pumps and lines that will not corrode in solvents. These are NOT the parts they put on the cars stock...it would be too $$$ for them to do so.

Future

Thanks for the reply.

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hector

[QUOTE=Crimson Ghost]

If you know anything about car manufacturers then you KNOW how they like to skimp on certian things...usually things that you CAN'T see.

[QUOTE]

i can attest to this- ive seen many parts cheaped or all out deleted just to save a penny per vehicle.

I agree with CG about being worried about long term effects- most parts are speced out to met specific operating conditions and not much more.

it all comes down to risk vs reward- is the money saved in gas worth the risk of possible break down the road. With gas the way it is i may just be.

Crimson Ghost

I just want to take this moment to say that I'm not against acetone. I would NOT run it in my car by itself.

Here is the Marvel Mystery Oil: http://www.autobarn.net/chmm013.html Weird name, good product. Can be used in oil or gas. In this case it would be good to run it in the gas along with Acetone.

We frequently use Toluene and Xylene and here is how we mix it up:

100 oz of toluene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)
This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.

Now, this is for octane booster, but it still deals with adding in a solvent to the gas mixture.


IMHO, NOTHING beats a properly tuned vehicle for gas mileage. My car could stomp a mudhole in a Corvette or Viper but still gets 22mpg...and I'm heavy footed! Proper tire pressure makes a HUGE difference too.

your2slow

Future here's a big thread about acetone in Diesel engines you might be interested in. Alot of it will carry over to gas engines.

TheDieselStop.com

The effects of acetone on o-rings and fuel lines makes this a rather expensive test. The injectors in my diesel run about $1500-$3000 a set. I better save alot of fuel to pay for that. Granted the concentration is low for what you plan to do, but at the same time if it's low enough to not hurt anything is it high enough to have any benefits?

Joint Fracture

Pretty good top cylinder lube. I can remember pop running some good Bardahl lube in the fuel decades back. Of course, he was a little biased, living 50 feet from the manufacturing plant (used to get a kick out of the piston Bardahl hydro boat they used to have out front, but that's a whole different story).

Yeah, he also used the moth ball stunt in the fuel. Used to put it in a sock or something and hang it down the filler neck. I think back then they were a purer form of nitromethylene. I'll still use a little Marvel in the street/strip machine every once in a while though. The new heads have the hardened seats, so it's more for ring lube than anything else.